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Naib
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morality124 wrote:
Are my concerns overblown? Thanks.

To compliment Neddy... yet, but concerns are good because at the very least you are questioning what is there.

Some people do not like the way that OpenRC is going and thus have locked their version at a particular version.
I have taken a different approach and accepted the latest version but am watching what it is expecting of me ... so far nothing has impacted on my choice. NOTE: I do not have a separate /usr and this was one of the key splits... There is a view that OpenRC is just aligning with Systemd but there isn't the extended thought to determine if the system consideration is valid, it is just demonizing systemd for the sake of it.

Now I am not saying I am not concerned as there have been a few questionable decisions, just they have been minor (from my perspective).

Even then Gentoo doesn't actually impose an init system... you could use openRC, systemd or runit (my fallback)

There is only two really obnoxious packages in @system in gentoo (systemd, paludis) where if you fully accept their usage AND then change your mind, it is very time consuming to unwind...
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paxsars
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Joined: 02 Mar 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a new gentoo user I can say the hardest and most complicated thing to learn is the package management system. Figuring out masks, use flags, downgrading, removing packages, rebuilding packages to install new packages ( I feel like I'm drowning) On the other hand it's a great learning experience and the community seems much friendlier than others I have seen.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. My latest problem with Gentoo (yes, I'm still here :wink: ) was that I had masked a certain OpenSSL version automatically and updating OpenSSL broke most of the build process. Thanks to this community, I found the solution without even having to ask ... 8)

However, I wonder if there is a more obvious way to manage USE flags and masked versions than having to dig through several different directories. Hmm.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin,

The USE flags and other things are layered. Each lower layer overrides (I use that term loosely) the layer above.

At the top, are the settings provided by the Gentoo devs in your profile.
They can be changed by the devs too. emerge --sync delivers the changes.

The next layer down is /etc/portage/make.conf. The settings here and in your profile are applied to everything you install.
That's often enough for most people, they don't need finer grained control.
There are tools like ufed and eselect to fiddle about here.

The files and directories in /etc/portage/* provide per package control over what is built and how its built.
Here be dragons. When you find yourself editing these things ask yourself if it should really be a global change.
If the answer is not clear, rephrase the question to be what harm would it do globally?

This far down the layers, you are configuring portage.
For completeness, there is another layer.
Portage can be controlled from the command line, like
Code:
USE="foo -bar" emerge ...

This is generally a very bad thing, as USE="foo -bar" only apply to that single command. Portage will forget it. However, it can be useful in the context of
Code:
USE="foo -bar" emerge -pv ...
to see what would happen. If you don't use -p you get to keep all the pieces.
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pun_guin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your detailed answer, as always. So editing the /etc/portage/make.conf for everything is "good enough"? Hmm, I spent too much time thinking about it then. :)
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not for everything. Sometimes per-package changes are the right solution. Per-package USE changes are generally safe. Per-package accept_keyword changes are situational, but can be very unsafe, especially if you set keywords to allow live versions. Per-package mask changes are even more situational and carry even higher risk. Generally, I would say that only per-package USE changes should be done without being able to answer Neddy's hypothetical questions about "What's the worst that could happen?"
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin wrote:
Thank you for your detailed answer, as always. So editing the /etc/portage/make.conf for everything is "good enough"? Hmm, I spent too much time thinking about it then. :)
good enough yes, but you then lose some flexibility...

I use to just use make.conf until there was extra bloat and longer rebuild times so I streamlined it to flags I would considered key & then deal with exceptions on a case by case basis


for instance I have gtk2 in my make.conf but in my package.use I have an entry dev-python/matplotlib examples -gtk -gtk2 -wxwidgets tk latex because I don't want to have gtk-based plots

saying that though... I could do with a spring clean
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pun_guin,

pun_guin wrote:
So editing the /etc/portage/make.conf for everything is "good enough"?

It all depends on your use case. Most of the time, its good enough but not always.
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