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Arch Linux is like a Subway sandwich
Yes
53%
 53%  [ 7 ]
No
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Maybe (don't care)
38%
 38%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 13

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Amity88
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Arch Linux is like a Subway sandwich Reply with quote

Arch Linux is like a Subway sandwich,: You think you're making your own food but it's all just prepackaged fastfood just like the other chains.

How many of ya all agree? :lol:
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Koala Kid
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never tried Arch... or Subway.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember news that Subway sandwiches contained yoga pants.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux from Scratch is like a Subway sandwich,: You think you're making your own food but it's all just follow a recipe for prepackaged fastfood just like the other chains.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
I seem to remember news that Subway sandwiches contained yoga pants.
Mats, not pants. And just a chemical, not chunks.

I love this headline:
Subway: 'Yoga mat' chemical almost out of bread (9:14 a.m. ET April 11, 2014)

Subway: No more "yoga mat" chemical in our bread (April 11, 2014, 4:01 PM)

But don't "blame" Subway...
Quote:
The ingredient, azodicarbonamide, is approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in food as a bleaching agent and dough conditioner. The Environmental Working Group published a list of nearly 500 food products containing the chemical, including Little Debbie Honey Buns, Pillsbury Toaster Strudel, and many items served at McDonald's, Burger King and Starbucks.

The chemical is also used to make yoga mats.
Gotta love the FDA.
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Amity88
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you PJP for being factually accurate :P :lol:
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Fran
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 14 years (fuck!) of using Gentoo exclusively and uninterruptedly I moved to Arch last year. I finally got tired of:

- "Hey, let's play with an arduino!"
Code:
$ emerge -pvt arduino

These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N     ] dev-embedded/arduino-1.0.5-r2::gentoo  USE="-doc -examples" 229828 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-java/jna-3.4.1::gentoo  USE="awt nio-buffers -doc -source {-test}" 34459 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]   dev-java/ant-nodeps-1.9.2::gentoo  3338 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-java/rxtx-2.2_pre2-r1:2::gentoo  USE="-doc -lfd -source" 1457 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-java/ant-core-1.9.2::gentoo  USE="-doc -source" 0 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-embedded/arduino-1.0.5-r2::gentoo  USE="-doc -examples"
[nomerge       ]  virtual/jre-1.8.0-r1:1.8::gentoo
[nomerge       ]   virtual/jdk-1.8.0-r3:1.8::gentoo
[nomerge       ]    dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source"
[ebuild  N     ]     dev-java/icedtea-web-1.6.2::gentoo  USE="-doc -javascript -nsplugin -tagsoup {-test}" 1782 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]      virtual/jre-1.8.0-r1:1.8::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]       virtual/jdk-1.8.0-r3:1.8::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]        dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source" 60461 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-embedded/avrdude-6.3::gentoo  USE="ncurses readline -doc -ftdi" 889 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]   virtual/libusb-0-r2::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]    dev-libs/libusb-compat-0.1.5-r3::gentoo  USE="-debug -examples -static-libs" 271 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source"
[ebuild  N     ]  x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.4-r1::gentoo  USE="-doc -static-libs" 278 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]   x11-proto/compositeproto-0.4.2-r1::gentoo  99 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-embedded/avrdude-6.3::gentoo  USE="ncurses readline -doc -ftdi"
[ebuild  N     ]  virtual/libusb-1-r2:1::gentoo  USE="udev" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]   dev-libs/libusb-1.0.21:1::gentoo  USE="udev -debug -doc -examples -static-libs {-test}" 594 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-embedded/arduino-1.0.5-r2::gentoo  USE="-doc -examples"
[ebuild  N     ]  sys-devel/crossdev-20160602-r1::gentoo  22 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-java/java-config-2.2.0-r3:2::gentoo  USE="{-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -python3_4 -python3_6" 51 KiB
[ebuild     U  ]   sys-apps/portage-2.3.14::gentoo [2.3.13::gentoo] USE="(ipc) native-extensions xattr -build -doc -epydoc (-selinux)" LINGUAS="-ru" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7* python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6" 0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]    dev-python/pyxattr-0.6.0::gentoo  USE="-doc {-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6" 31 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-python/pyxattr-0.6.0::gentoo  USE="-doc {-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6"
[nomerge       ]  dev-python/setuptools-36.7.2::gentoo [36.6.0::gentoo] USE="{-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7* python3_5 -pypy -pypy3 -python3_4 -python3_6"
[ebuild   R    ]   dev-python/certifi-2017.7.27.1::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7* python3_5 -pypy -pypy3 -python3_4 -python3_6" 0 KiB
[ebuild     U  ]    dev-python/setuptools-36.7.2::gentoo [36.6.0::gentoo] USE="{-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7* python3_5 -pypy -pypy3 -python3_4 -python3_6" 0 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source"
[ebuild  N     ]  media-libs/alsa-lib-1.1.5::gentoo  USE="-alisp -debug -doc -python" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7" 957 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]  app-eselect/eselect-java-0.3.0::gentoo  14 KiB
[nomerge       ] app-portage/gentoolkit-0.4.0::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_5 -pypy -python2_7 -python3_4 -python3_6"
[nomerge       ]  sys-apps/portage-2.3.14::gentoo [2.3.13::gentoo] USE="(ipc) native-extensions xattr -build -doc -epydoc (-selinux)" LINGUAS="-ru" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7* python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6"
[ebuild  N     ]   dev-python/pyblake2-1.0.0::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -pypy -python3_4 -python3_6" 0 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/jna-3.4.1::gentoo  USE="awt nio-buffers -doc -source {-test}"
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-java/javatoolkit-0.3.0-r9::gentoo  PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7" 17 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source"
[ebuild  NS    ]  virtual/jpeg-62:62::gentoo [0-r2:0::gentoo] 0 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-web-1.6.2::gentoo  USE="-doc -javascript -nsplugin -tagsoup {-test}"
[nomerge       ]  dev-java/java-config-2.2.0-r3:2::gentoo  USE="{-test}" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5 -python3_4 -python3_6"
[ebuild  N     ]   sys-apps/baselayout-java-0.1.0::gentoo  71 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-bin-3.6.0:8::gentoo  USE="alsa webstart (-big-endian) -cups -doc -examples -gtk -headless-awt (-multilib) -nsplugin -pulseaudio (-selinux) -source"
[ebuild  N     ]  media-libs/giflib-5.1.4:0/7::gentoo  USE="-doc -static-libs" 625 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-java/icedtea-web-1.6.2::gentoo  USE="-doc -javascript -nsplugin -tagsoup {-test}"
[ebuild  N     ]  app-arch/zip-3.0-r3::gentoo  USE="bzip2 crypt unicode -natspec" 1258 KiB
[nomerge       ] dev-embedded/arduino-1.0.5-r2::gentoo  USE="-doc -examples"
[ebuild  N     ]  dev-embedded/uisp-20050207-r1::gentoo  163 KiB

Total: 31 packages (2 upgrades, 27 new, 1 in new slot, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 336654 KiB

Yay, an hour of compiling for arduino 1.0! (Yeah, I suppose that with a bit of luck I can find a more updated arduino-bin in whatever-overlay).

Instead:

Quote:
$ time sudo pacman -S arduino
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...

Packages (4) arduino-builder-1.3.25-3 arduino-ctags-5.8_arduino11-2 jre8-openjdk-8.u144-1 arduino-1:1.8.5-1

Total Installed Size: 28.92 MiB

:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n]
(4/4) checking keys in keyring [###############################################] 100%
(4/4) checking package integrity [###############################################] 100%
(4/4) loading package files [###############################################] 100%
(4/4) checking for file conflicts [###############################################] 100%
(4/4) checking available disk space [###############################################] 100%
:: Processing package changes...
(1/4) installing jre8-openjdk [###############################################] 100%
when you use a non-reparenting window manager,
set _JAVA_AWT_WM_NONREPARENTING=1 in /etc/profile.d/jre.sh
Optional dependencies for jre8-openjdk
icedtea-web: web browser plugin + Java Web Start
alsa-lib: for basic sound support [installed]
gtk2: for the Gtk+ look and feel - desktop usage [installed]
java-openjfx: for JavaFX GUI components support
(2/4) installing arduino-ctags [###############################################] 100%
(3/4) installing arduino-builder [###############################################] 100%
Optional dependencies for arduino-builder
arduino-avr-core: AVR core with upstream avr-gcc and avrdude
(4/4) installing arduino [###############################################] 100%
:: Add yourself to the uucp group to access the serial ports:
sudo usermod -a -G uucp <user>
Please checkout the wiki for further information.
Optional dependencies for arduino
arduino-docs: Offline documentation for arduino
arduino-avr-core: AVR core with upstream avr-gcc and avrdude
python2: Intel Galileo Board installation [installed]
:: Running post-transaction hooks...
(1/4) Updating icon theme caches...
(2/4) Arming ConditionNeedsUpdate...
(3/4) Updating the desktop file MIME type cache...
(4/4) Updating the MIME type database...

real 0m1.924s
user 0m1.347s
sys 0m0.115s
$ arduino


And two fucking seconds afterwards I can start playing with my arduino. Oh, and during this year I still haven't had to fix a single update breakage / gotcha. The time I've dedicated to the OS has decreased dramatically (to zero, actually).

So I'm quite happy with the processed food :)
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you consider the terrible effect that systemd and a working gnome will have on your health?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amity88 wrote:
Thank you PJP for being factually accurate :P :lol:
It is somewhat amusing, and it is easy to make Evil Corporations the target of derision. But I wonder if it is actually harmful. It certainly sounds bad, but what if something suitable for human consumption could benefit something that wasn't food, such as a yoga mat. Or something that isn't known to be harmful in small quantities has other benefits to the food item.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fran wrote:
And two fucking seconds afterwards I can start playing with my arduino. Oh, and during this year I still haven't had to fix a single update breakage / gotcha. The time I've dedicated to the OS has decreased dramatically (to zero, actually).

So I'm quite happy with the processed food :)

I didn't feel like wasting half a day installing and configuring a new OS, nor making permanent downpayments on the technical debt of a mystery meat cross-toolchain, so I spent two seconds checking `eix -R arduino`, two seconds to run `eselect repository enable arduino-overlay`, and let it do its thing.

qlop tells me cross-avr/gcc-7.3.0 took 45 minutes and building arduino-1.8.5 plus about 50 java/go(?) deps from source took another 25 minutes, which totals just under half the running time of Ridley Scott's 2000 movie Gladiator.
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Mardok45
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this post while shoving a Subway sandwich into my face.

6 hours later, I tried to shit and couldn't do it. I choose to blame Arch Linux for not enabling my bowels to expel the meat/vegetables/bread from my digestive track.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Did you consider the terrible effect that systemd

I'm one of those heathens that ran systemd on Gentoo (at least for a while) and didn't dislike it... :)

OpenRC has given me more problems (in way more time, admitedly) than systemd.

Ant P. wrote:
I didn't feel like wasting half a day installing and configuring a new OS, nor making permanent downpayments on the technical debt of a mystery meat cross-toolchain, so ...

Yep, those are some of the reasons I've been giving my Debian (70%) and whateverotherdistro (30%) colleagues for 14 years ;)

Doesn't change the fact that you've had to wait for >1h (hey, I did a good estimation :)) to do what you wanted to do.... and that gets old.

The other day I wanted to develop a simple kodi addon for my raspberry pi. Doing it in the raspberry is a PITA, so, pacman -S kodi and 5 seconds later I'm testing my hello world addon in the big computer. No looking at the dependencies, no checking USEs and deciding what I can/should disable, no nothing. After I finished, pacman -Rns kodi and done.

Same thing when I wanted to change the formatting in an epub with stupid fixed margins and fonts. I don't even want to think how much time I would need to compile calibre and its dependencies (the humongous qt-webkit among them). The last time this happened to me and emerged -p calibre... I said fuck it and did it in windows. I think it was then when I realized the absurdity of what I was doing.

The time I would have spent keeping my gentoo installation as I liked this last year would dwarf the <1 hour I spent installing Arch (half a day? This is not Gentoo ;)).
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fran wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Did you consider the terrible effect that systemd

I'm one of those heathens that ran systemd on Gentoo (at least for a while) and didn't dislike it... :)


Yeah why follow the paranoid sheep like a lemming .... it is just the init system of the house after all, actively boycotting software at random is incompatible with pretending to be a powerfull metadistro that can be used to create you own OS. You can as long long as the OS is made in certain way ;-) exactly like I cannot have an hamburger in my subway sandwitch btw.
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Amity88
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
it is just the init system of the house after all


Eh.. It's not just an init system. I see it more like a fork of Linux.

Like a Kraken wrapping its tentacles around the ship :P

Or actually more like all ships coming with a giant Octopus attached and it's a PITA to pry its ever wrapping tentacles away.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody needs to sig that.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Somebody needs to sig that.

On it. Will add it to my current shitty .sig (I finally get to test it on the wider population, yay!).
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Also, systemd is bad and stuff...
Bones McCracker wrote:
It wouldn't be so bad, if it didn't suck.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Somebody needs to sig that.

Done.
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