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Do you still run x86 32-bit Linux in 2017/2018?
Yes, main desktop, because too lazy to convert to 64-bit
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, main desktop, machine can't run 64-bit
11%
 11%  [ 5 ]
Yes, running as PVR or other embedded solution
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Yes, running as a server, router, or on a virtual machine
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Yes, more than one of the above
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
No, but have 32-bit other architecture
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
No, no more 32-bit, get into the 21st century!
41%
 41%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 43

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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
I can also drop swap and install DOS and Win 3.1 just for old times sake :)
Swap is next to /boot at the front of the drives.

My SSD Kaveri has only a swapfile and when I transition the Athlon II box to Ryzen on an NVME, I plan to do the same plus buy 16G of RAM which should pretty much obviate the need for swap. Essentially, out of the old box I will keep:
1. the box itself
2. the DVD drive
3. peripherals - wireless mouse keyboard (I've toyed with the idea of a wireless keyboard), monitor and speakers
4. the videocard that I bought for future use with Zen (onboard video was fine for me)
5. MAYBE the intel ethernet card, but only if the new mobo's onboard isn't supported.
6. the TV card (IF the new board has a legacy PCI slot like one MSI B350 board does), else I have a quad TV pci-e board handy.
7. the 2G data hard drive (maybe scrap the JFS)
8. the Gentoo software instal which will be rebuilt via emerge -e world to optimize for Ryzen.

New PSU, mobo & CPU, memory and NVME drive. Oh, I'll probably finally leave grub legacy for refind.

BTW, the k6-3 doesn't run X11 but it does dual boot NT 4.0, haven't done it for years.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the 17.0 profile is kinda imminent... I thought to ask if one could just disable pie USE -flag globally? Would that work? Since I'm planning to revive my old Pentium 3 laptop sooner or later, I'd like to disable pie there since it seems to cause overhead.
Also would that make it impossible to compile softaware for it on pie enabled 64-bit system (with multilib)? If it's impossible then how about 32-bit non-pie crossdev environment inside qemu?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca,

That works but there is an extra step as pie is forced on.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. So basically right after untarring stage3, chrooting and editing make.conf I'd run
Code:
emerge -1 gcc && emerge -e --exclude gcc @world
... Maybe also libc and binutils too before @world.
Is this roughly the correct way?
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miket
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for the last option because it was the most accurate: my last 32-bit machine (yes, on Gentoo) went out of service 7 or 8 years ago, so I have been exclusively 64-bit since then. Things were bumpier in the beginning of 64-bit, but things are good now.

At the same time, I sure am not demanding that everyone "get into the 21st century!" as the poll asks. You could turn that a bit into how I got into the 21st century. 8) I rejoice that Gentoo still supports x86 since, yes indeed, many people still use it and I myself could find myself wanting to use it.

For me, the more fearsome thing is what Intel wants to push onto the world: dropping of support of legacy BIOS in favor of its EFI dog-and-pony show. I am happily in the 16/32-bit world for that!
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least at this point it seems most people have gotten rid of their 32-bit x86 boxes, but still a good holdout. It's great some people other than me still use their x86 boxes on a daily basis so we don't have to worry too much about bit rot... I hope...
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JWJones
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted "Yes, main desktop, machine can't run 64-bit" because I am currently installing on an old Dell Dimension 3000, P4, 1GB RAM, 40GB HDD. This will be my first attempt at installing Gentoo, so I thought I'd use an old machine from our "boneyard" here at work. I come from the Slackware world to Gentoo, so it's not too much of a stretch for me, so far. I plan on starting off with a minimal window manager desktop machine on this hardware: probably cwm, i3, or spectrwm, then later I'll build a nice xfce desktop on higher-spec (64-bit) hardware.

I should probably note that I am merely a Linux/BSD hobbyist; I'm neither a developer or IT person. I do this only for my own use/experience. I'm really enjoying the Gentoo way so far!
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now due to meltdown, 32-bit users are currently in limbo, or has someone seen some information about getting PTI ported to x86-32?
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miket
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
Now due to meltdown, 32-bit users are currently in limbo, or has someone seen some information about getting PTI ported to x86-32?

At first flush, I thought that 32-bit machines would already be covered. The main KAISER patches were made at the new file arch/x86/kaiser.c and seem not to involve assembler source at all. That would make it seem that the fixes would apply equally well to all x86-family processors, whether 64 or 32 bits.

So then I had to take a look. The .config key of interest is CONFIG_PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION. I grabbed the 4.14.13 tarball from kernel.org and went into menuconfig. The sad news that the selection "Security options -> Remove the kernel mapping in user mode" is enabled only for 64-bit kernels. If you're really living of the edge you might try to force that to be enabled anyway, but there are two dangers: that this would definitely break something because of differences in the processors or that, even if the programmers think that they have everything covered, the fix is poorly tested on 32-bit machines.

A grep through the sources for CONFIG_PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION shows 29 places where it is tested. I wasn't ready to walk through all of those.

Already GKH is telling people who are not on 4.4, 4.9, or 4.14 (or testing 4.15) that they are out of luck. I hope that's not the case for 32-bit x86.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I tried setting CONFIG_PAGE_TABLE_ISOLATION to Y (actually, removed the Kconfig requirement for X86_64)

It wouldn't even compile (4.14.12).

---

Curiosity to those who are still using 32-bit: My initial guesses is that anyone using before a P4 or Pentium-M, you might be safe because it's not predictable to read the data. It IS vulnerable and a dedicated hacker will get your data, but it requires patience and 100% CPU utilization for long periods of time to get your data (as it'd have to check and check again, and may need to do a "best of 3" type of deal (or possibly more than 3) in order to reliably read information, and by then the possibility the data has changed by then.

A P4 or Pentium-M, as they support SSE2 - since they come with cache operations extensions, they are screwed as they're easier to determine whether they got the right cache line. If you can run 64-bit, now's the time.

The non-speculative, non-out of order Atoms are good to go as far as I know (note: the newer Atoms do use speculation and can run things out of order, so they are affected). These older Atoms may be the only 32-bit x86 CPU that are okay at this point. I think even Spectre won't work because of the lack of speculative execution.. Unfortunately these older Atoms are slow as molasses...
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Marcih
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just necro this thread if you don't mind ;)

I don't have many machines but 66.6% are a) laptops, b) pre-2006 (Acer TravelMate 230 and 2414WLMi), therefore x86 it is. As you can imagine, compiling on single-core laptop processors is a pain (my recent emerge -e @world due to changed ${CFLAGS} took 36 hours 8O ). The remaining machine is my main one and is a recent x86_64 desktop, but I do have ABI_X86="32 64" in make.conf for compatibilty. I don't understand the vehement push of everything towards the 64-bit variant of whatever architecture - probably because I don't understand how intruction sets work and the benefits of 64-bit aside from having 64 1s and 0s as opposed to 32 of them! :lol:
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcih wrote:
I don't understand the vehement push of everything towards the 64-bit variant of whatever architecture

I think it's purely due to software developers hating fighting against the 4GB (3GB) memory limit...

Lazy software developers don't want to put their code on a diet.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also the technical appeal of reduced workload / testing. If you have the option to support the package on only one architecture (x86_64) instead of two (x86 and x86_64), that reduces your workload. If you want to support only one architecture, dropping x86 makes more sense than dropping x86_64.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ergo lazy software developers :D
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miket
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget about another 64-bit advantage. The AMD64 CPU's have a lot more registers than the 32-bit ones plus new addressing modes. One of those new modes is for data relative to the program counter. This makes it so that AMD64 supports Position-Independent Executables with no overhead. The older 32-bit architecture lacks this mode and takes a performance hit when programs are built as position-independent executables.

PIE not only allows loading shared libraries at any location the OS wants to load them, but it is also necessary for Address Space Layout Randomization, a common and cheap security measure.
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Marcih
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
I think it's purely due to software developers hating fighting against the 4GB (3GB) memory limit...

I don't know how kernel memory addressing works (yet ;) ) so enlighten me, is it that 32-bit systems can only have max 3GiB of memory mapped and therefore a program can't ever access more than that (imagine your program being so crap that it consumes up 3GiB of RAM :lol: )? Because the Linux x86 kernel can support himem all the way till 64GiB using some Intel technology (Physical Adress Extension).
Hu wrote:
There is also the technical appeal of reduced workload / testing. If you have the option to support the package on only one architecture (x86_64) instead of two (x86 and x86_64), that reduces your workload. If you want to support only one architecture, dropping x86 makes more sense than dropping x86_64.

Makes sense, x86 is "ancient", I can understand that (although I don't consider it valid ;) ).
miket wrote:
Don't forget about another 64-bit advantage. The AMD64 CPU's have a lot more registers than the 32-bit ones plus new addressing modes. One of those new modes is for data relative to the program counter. This makes it so that AMD64 supports Position-Independent Executables with no overhead. The older 32-bit architecture lacks this mode and takes a performance hit when programs are built as position-independent executables.

PIE not only allows loading shared libraries at any location the OS wants to load them, but it is also necessary for Address Space Layout Randomization, a common and cheap security measure.

Oh, I didn't know that. Would it then be wise to disable the PIE use flag on gcc that's been introduced as the default in the new 17.0 profiles and recompile world to sacrifice security for a bit more performance on my memory-and-processing-power-starved laptop?
eccerr0r wrote:
All the evil in the computer world is caused by lazy developers, no exceptions.

The only correct answer. :lol:
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