I am about to give Gentoo up

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject:

Spargeltarzan,

You don't need a second system or even a second install, except in a production environment.
I currently run ~x86, ~amd64 ~arm64 and util a few years ago, ~arm and ~sparc.

Testing is mostly solid. Its a lot better than it was in the days of testing being the development playground.
The development playground has mostly moved to overlays and testing stuff is now almost tree ready.

The following rules will always apply to Gentoo updates, stable or testing.
Don't do it when you are in a hurry.
Do keep binary packages, so you can downgrade the odd broken package quickly.

Don't mix stable and testing. That's hard blockers waiting to happen.
Likewise, take great care with overlays.

Gentoos problem, as well as its strength is that every Gentoo install is unique.
When you design your own distro using Gentoo, you need to take good care of it too.
You really might be the only one with a system like yours.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

I hadn't thought there would be so many interpretations of what I said.

My comments aren't specifically about Gentoo. Every distro I've ever used since the mid 90s has had a mailing list or forum. There's always somebody who writes a dear john letter. It's all drama, hoping for somebody to be heartbroken and beg them to stay.

If this thread were actually about wanting help, its subject shouldn't contain any variant of "I'm leaving Gentoo." It should be some variant of "Portage broken, can't get rid of blockers, system maintenance time untenable." Inside of that, it's feasible that the OP may give up, thank everyone for their time and then sign off for good.

Ever since around 1998 or so, I've maintained multiple Linux boxes for home and work. Ever since around 2002 or so, the collection of boxes I maintain has had multiple distributions on them. When installing a box or a vm, I evaluate the needs of the system and decide which distro to use. Sometimes it's Ubuntu Server, sometimes it's Gentoo, sometimes it's something else. RHEL, CentOS, Suse, Arch, Debian or one of the clones pretty much covers most of them.

I see value in knowing about and using several distributions. It helps me understand what Linux is about, what FOSS is about, and how non-free software interacts with FOSS.

I appreciate that those maintaining a distro may want to know why people leave, and if the situation is still tenable maybe fix the problem for the remaining users. I get that. What I don't get is why somebody picks such an unrelated subject and expects anyone to care. This sort of subject automatically makes me not care, to the point that I ask the sort of questions I asked, to find out why somebody else cares.

Spargeltarzan · Guru Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Posts: 317

I believe the topic of this thread has changed very quickly to "Portage broken, can't get rid of blockers, system maintenance time untenable" and it is not about one user who left Gentoo. This user posted exactly once that he is on Ubuntu now and absolutely does not ask somebody to be heardbroken... it's all the other users who are on Gentoo, who are willing to stay and who speak about Portage!

Please don't ask us to open a second thread...

Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:05 pm Post subject:

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

I don't get this mentality people keep coming here with, of “I ignored the manual and neglected my system to the point it'd be faster to do a new install than repair it, but I can't reinstall the distro now that I'm so set on blaming it for my mistakes - time to install another one out of spite”.

You'll have much worse problems if you try to apply the Windows-owner mindset to something like Debian or Ubuntu; neglect it for a year and one day you'll find yourself with a half-configured systemd or your formerly working desktop has been replaced by GNOME.

Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject:

Spargeltarzan · Guru Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Posts: 317

Zucca · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject:

ian.au · Guru Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Posts: 591 Location: Australia

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

FWIW I get complications on updates about as often on Ubuntu as I do on Gentoo. Gentoo definitely takes more time to administer but you knew that going in. Complications take about the same time on any distro I currently use.

saboya · Guru Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 552 Location: Brazil

I think most people have problems because they don't update often. It's hard to say how frequent is enough, but I update daily, and I rarely have any issues at all.

The second most common cause is using unstable packages and not knowing how to deal with the breakage when it happens. I realize one of the main benefits of running a rolling-source-based distro is the possibility of running bleeding-edge stuff, but you can't expect a package that hasn't gone through the time test to be as good as a package that has had months of production test.

But IMO the are that Gentoo really shines is managing your install. Gentoo is, by far, the best distro to customize beyond what the default gives you, while still maintaining a sane, centralized and fine-grained config to manage it.

Also, I've always found much easier to deal with occasional breakage on Gentoo than on Ubuntu. Especially because during the process of learning to use Gentoo you get to learn a lot about how a Linux system works in general, which doesn't happen with Ubuntu.

However, Gentoo suffers from not having enough manpower to keep everything running smoothly all the time. And, when there are other options out there, often you are faced with the choice to a) put some time and effort to learn and contribute to Gentoo - or b) just install something that is better supported. The latter usually wins.

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21635

figueroa · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:40 am Post subject:

Very interesting. I came to the forum this evening because of an update failure. :-)

I ended up updating my profile to 17 and I have another another update running in a terminal. My system is a very old x86 and I run stable.

I don't usually have trouble with updates. I check updates daily, automatically, with the following in crontab:

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Zucca · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject:

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

McQ · n00b Joined: 27 Jul 2017 Posts: 5

Aiken · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:41 pm Post subject:

artbody · Guru Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 489 Location: LB

years ago 1994 i installed a Suse Linux ... therefore i had to open my 286 pc and have to look if that chip is from xyz with the number nnn and so on
days later it worked ... :wink:

in these day i learned to build up a 386 PC from a list of linux supported Hardware ...

1998 i killed my last Windowsinstallation
since that day i've Linux only

2000 or so i discovered MandrakeLinux developer version
at that point where 2005 Mandrive jumped in
i began to search a real good linux

Enlightenment(16), worker and scite three must have packages
gentoo yes that's great

they have it

reading the Handbook to install and compile every package
days later it worked ... :wink:

what has changed since these days ?
it's the complexity of all that stuff
Linux fails because of egocentricity
Rather than cooperating, hobby programmers, Linux distributors, and Linux-based hardware manufacturers are all too often doing their own thing. No wonder, because that's how they stand out and stand in the spotlight. Much more important, but not as public appeal , the basic work remains there on the track.

i thing every developer did a good job but they have all the same problem as nearly the whole mankind
each one of us lives in his very own small cave (read Platon politeya)
the only thing we see are the shadows of some gamers.

so if i , as a USER, ask friendly for help :arrow:

there will be one who helps
if someone pushes his own disaster and chaos to all the others :arrow:

i take a step aside

_________________
Never give up
WM : E16 the true enlightenment
achim

Polynomial-C · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:38 pm Post subject:

Aiken · Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:15 am Post subject:

It is not in the features list in the make.conf I have been staring at that has the features listed so did not see it will be my excuse. Last time I read anything about this an option to disable the news did not exist. This is why I started with that redirect.

I would also rather an option outside of make.conf. Most of the make.conf are identical. Edit the master and it is distributed so with those machines I do not want to start with some having different make.conf files to the others. All I can think of at the moment with that option is FEATURES="-new" emerge whatever and editing scripts is more effort than leaving the redirect to /dev/null in place.
_________________
Beware the grue.