Graphics Card ... or Something Else [Understood]

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject:

krinn,

The V for victory came from the Battle of Agincourt where the French came second.

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject:

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject:

krinn,

I was trying to avoid an international incident :)

Back to topic.

The symptom recurred, so I'm back to the

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:34 pm Post subject:

Tony0945,

I clean the dust off when the CPU gets to 60C under load.
I use a stiff natural bristle brush, so I don't run the risk of static damage due to dry air becoming charged.
Air out of a compressor is dried as a side effect of being compressed.

20 psi is about 1.3 bar but I still check my tyres is psi :)

The PSU may be overdue a clean but with the total load down, I don't see it as a dust or thermal issue.
Its also very difficult to remove without taking everything out of the case.

The 12V connector for the CPU regularly gets charred. I have to keep cleaning that.
Four pins (total) for the Vcore is not enough.

I'll try wiping the contacts on the main motherboard power connector. It wall be carrying more 12v current that it used to.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

P.Kosunen · Guru Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Finland

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject:

I have seen warnings about using a compressor, thus have lowered the pressure. I don't like the canned air because it leaves a greasy residue. The brush sounds good but doesn't it raise a static risk also?

Your PSU is apparently made by ChannellWell rather than Seasonic http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/psu_manufacturers
I'm not familiar with them but apparently they made the Antec Smartpower 2.0 which was not bad but not terribly efficient at low power levels.
Last year I replaced mine with an Antec EDGE made by Seasonic. I now have one Seasonic PSU, two Antec branded Seasonic's and one Antec branded Delta.

I don't like the charred connector. I have never had that even though I run my 125W Phenom II 24 hours a day (Seasonic S12II 430B). The PSU is rated at 17A http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/seasonic-s12ii-bronze-430-w-power-supply-review/6/

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

When you're cleaning out your machine you should leave it plugged in but powered off. That leaves the ground in place, which protects your electronics.

Any time you have air moving across anything it generates a bit of static electricity. The vacuum, the brush, whatever all have some risk of that.

AFAIK the biggest problem with a compressor is that the air coming out of it is not just air. It also has water droplets, dirt, oil and whatever else got sucked into the inlet. Including small bits of metal.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject:

Tony0945,

Natural bristle is not a very good insulator, unlike say, nylon bristles.
While the brushing action will raise static, its conducted away again too.

The charred connector is a feature. This motherboard was probably not designed for a six core Phenom II.
The BIOS it was shipped with certainly wasn't. I had to do a BIOS update before it would boot the six core CPU.
It looks like the CPU power connector does not have enough pins for a six core Phenom II working hard, so the connector overheats.
Its a feature I'm aware of and manage.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:08 pm Post subject:

Which mobo? Mine is Gigabyte GA-880GA-UD3H. CPU is AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
It has onbard Radeon graphics but the Windows Catalyst drivers were so bad that I disabled it and installed an EVGA GeForce 8400GS
I don't think it has a fan. Right now it's at 121F (50 C).

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject:

Tony0945,

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject:

After a wee while back on the old nVdia card, I've refitted the RX 460
The CPU Fan Error went away when the nVdia card was reinstalled.
Its stayed away with the RX 460 refitted. ... well, its only one boot so far.

I'm still using the Dual Link DVI port, I'll need to rake about for for display port cables.

-- edit --

Rebooted to give the motherboard power connectors a good 'graunch' in an attempt to reduce the contact resistance.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject:

It might be motherboard RAM ..

Its failed 3 times today. On 5 core, 6 cores and while doing a world update.
Always on the display port connector.

I was about to try the new AMD code in kernel-4.15 but I get segfaults trying to build it
However, each invocation of make builds a bit more.

I've kicked off memtest86+ its half way through the first pass.

-- edit --
memtest86+ the first pass, so I've stopped it

I still get

Tony0945 · Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:14 pm Post subject:

Neddy, time for a new mobo https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Gigabyte-Technology-GA-880GA-UD3H-Rev-2-2-AM3-AMD-Motherboard-1/112660553884?epid=129638825&hash=item1a3b17a09c:g:f3YAAOSwbF1aHNqy

Or perhaps a full upgrade. I think these are new enough to be free of the segfault bug. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113434&cm_re=ryzen_1600-_-19-113-434-_-Product plus mobo plus new memory.

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

I'm in a position to volunteer as test subject for that: I have a GA-MA770-UD3, and I've got a RX550 coming early next week. These Gigabyte boards (the -UD3 ones) are advertised as having thicker traces for power so maybe that'll make some difference.

The card specs say it pulls max 50W through the motherboard - my current one is a 6450 which is something weak like 25W. Either way I'm expecting a decent light show, whether it's on screen or on the mobo.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:07 am Post subject:

Tony0945,

I'm planning a full upgrade. I got the video card early as I though I might get a 4k display too :)
However my existing 9 year old video card won't drive 4k and I'm not one to keep a Ferrari just to drive to the corner shop.
Amazon had a good deal on this one and I wanted fanless ...

My motherboard is PCIe 2.0, maybe 2.1. The card is PCI 3.0, so it can get a lot more data down each lane.
Hmm ... Its in 8 lane mode now. I can set it in the BIOS. Maybe the timing balances on each lane are not what they need to be.
Heh a single lane Graphics card :)

Look at the newegg prices and change the $ to £. Buying from a US site costs me import duty and VAT. That adds abut 40% to the cost.
In some cases, its lower cost to fly to the USA, do your shopping, some sight seeing and put the stuff in your hold baggage.

Ant P.

I look forward to hearing about your light show.

-- edit --

Choosing the stackframe unwinder avoids the segfaults on the Phenom.
Its running on 4.15.0-rc1, with the new AMD kernel code and a single PCIe lane just now.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Tony0945 · Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:02 am Post subject:

After two days of kernel-4.15.0-rc1 using the hew AMD driver that appears there and operation on a single PCIe lane, I've put the BIOS back to auto to detect the PCIe lane count.

I really know better than to change several parameters at the same time but a series of controlled experiments to do a binary search works too.

If this locks up, I'll put it down to PCIe lane trace length and impedance matching on a 9 year old motherboard and live with it until after Christmas, then get a new system in the January sales.

At least I can put it back to single PCIe lane operation.
There is also another slot I can try on the motherboard but that means gutting the system to rearrange all the plug in cards.

Single PCIe lane operation seems to work for my graphics workload.
Maybe a collection of 16 lane graphics cards all working on the same frame is overrated :)
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Tony0945 · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject:

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject:

Tony0945,

Ryzen, or dual Ryzen in the same package :)
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

ZeuZ_NG · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject:

@NeddySeagon,
have you tried to update BIOS? Sorry if you did, tried to read the whole thread but didn't catch if you did so..

If getting segfaults randomly, I would also try swapping memories.. And wouldn't risk doing a live update on the BIOS..
Rather take out a programmer like ch341a wich is cheap and supports most desktop BIOS chips
_________________
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:06 pm Post subject:

ZeuZ_NG,

I have the latest BIOS. Its old but there is noting to update it to.
mtest86+ passes.

I think the segfaults are not related to the graphics problem because if I change a kernel option the kernel builds without any segfaults.
Its a new option in 4.15.0 too, so maybe it has a bug.

I'll test a while longer with 4.15.0-rc1 and in a week or two, try another -rc. I don't want any more variables that I can help.
That makes the problem space bigger.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.