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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Firefox Quantum? Reply with quote

Anyone?

I tried installing, but it wanted to replace my existing install, which is a no go at this station.

UI would probably be the major hurdle (which is why I'm on ESR). What about privacy? I recently read something about Firefox phoning home to mozilla.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still on ESR in Linux, but have installed it in Windows.

I tested it out for about 10 minutes and was happy with the performance. I haven't looked into the privacy issues that the browser may or may not have.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on it since beta,
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installed it at work. Removed some of the GUI fix add-ons a while back, to prepare for the apocalypse. Have more or less adapted to the idiocy that is tabs on top now, but after update I really miss ColorfulTabs. That and some other small ones I use might still come back later, now that the new Theme stuff is out there at the deadline, and extended functionality can be worked on.

I assume there is some new stuff to be tinkered with in about:config that might solve any annoyances that show up.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know they haven't gone full-idiot with tabs in some weird location :P

I can't recall which UI changes which pushed me to ESR. I was hoping to try it on Linux, but so far it isn't in the tree.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tried it, the debugger is hellish slow and utterly fails to correctly live resolve variables (as in plain wrong). It also likes to randomly change my break points (srsly wtf).

Can't commend on the speed.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The UI is definitely an improvement but to much things still are not working... wait a bit. Chrom(e|ium) is still better.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the chrome UI is complete garbage...

Most annoying thing in 57 is that minimum tab size is too small, just like it has always been in chrome. I don't know if I've had some setting added by an add-on or something, the setting in about:config was apparently removed many years ago.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I often fail to grasp the decision making process projects use for UI "improvements."

Here a dev references this bug as a tracker for possible related API support for tab features.

And in a different comment, I think I found the source of UI improvements:
Quote:
We’re trying to build the best browser we can, guided by professional user experience and product designers, telemetry, and user feedback.
Projects often seem to ignore user feedback (even if they say otherwise). I really can't see many people demanding that options be removed. The decision to include a reasonable minimum tab size would seem to be the result of using the product, not professional design or through telemetry (which can't tell you something a non-existent feature is needed).
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
tried it, the debugger is hellish slow and utterly fails to correctly live resolve variables (as in plain wrong). It also likes to randomly change my break points (srsly wtf).

Can't commend on the speed.


How is it changing your breakpoints? Is this in GDB?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arnvidr wrote:
Most annoying thing in 57 is that minimum tab size is too small, just like it has always been in chrome. I don't know if I've had some setting added by an add-on or something, the setting in about:config was apparently removed many years ago.
I partly retract my previous statement, browser.tabs.tabMinWidth still works.

edit: Also, although GUI fix add-ons no longer work, most of the stuff it did can be accomplished by editing the userChrome-system. Here is a collection of most of the fixes those add-ons provided
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quantum breaks Vimperator, which I find necessary to use Firefox. Aside from that, Firefox "Pocket" has grown into adware that displays ads on your new tab page and appears to have a unique advertising ID generated on installation. If you decide to not show pocket the menus are still there. I am looking to see how to remove it.

The first time I modified my new tab page I did not see pocket, and then suddenly it was there.

I am sad.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R0b0t1 wrote:
Firefox "Pocket" has grown into adware that displays ads on your new tab page and appears to have a unique advertising ID generated on installation. If you decide to not show pocket the menus are still there. I am looking to see how to remove it.

The first time I modified my new tab page I did not see pocket, and then suddenly it was there.

I am sad.
Thanks, that's good to know.

I recently came across a reference to Brave. It is cross-platform, so I'll be checking it out soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Brave too is Chrome (Chromium?) based. Unfortunately it has some plugins included. 4 password managers, a coupon app, something for Ethereum, Pocket, and a torrent viewer. I completely understand embedding ad-blockers, etc. And I even understand installing some core browser type features. But none of these seem to be core features. Password management maybe, but not when you feel compelled to include 4 of them.

Not a good start. But I haven't yet used it for anything, so maybe it'll be amazing.


EDIT: When turning on script blocking, I'm not seeing an obvious way to quickly enable some scripts. That may be a deal breaker. I'm sure I can add other plugins I'm already using, but then what's the advantage of having the browser do some of this stuff on its own.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arnvidr wrote:
But the chrome UI is complete garbage...

Funny since Firexox now looks like a clone of chromium UI :-), with a slightly bigger and less refined bar....
Apparently the decision making in UI improvements involve closely mimicking competitors (as always)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefox just keeps getting worse and worse. I rolled back to ESR because my plugins were broken, and now they're all breaking one by one as they update to the new web-whatchamacallit. I've had to roll back at least 3 of my plugins to pre-webshit. I'd consider palemoon, but chances are I'd have to keep using old versions of my plugins. Maybe I'll just have to stop using web browsers on desktops. :(
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
zixnub wrote:
tried it, the debugger is hellish slow and utterly fails to correctly live resolve variables (as in plain wrong). It also likes to randomly change my break points (srsly wtf).

Can't commend on the speed.


How is it changing your breakpoints? Is this in GDB?


the js debugger. It looks like it partially reads the js file and immediately executes what it can, the side effect is that line numbers are different then when a fully loaded js file is executed. Hence it breaks on the right line number, but in a totally different place in the code.

Just a feeling though.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah we also got some good stuff to smoke lately .....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had to set it up on someone's windows computer recently. First run is absolutely inundated with self-serving wank and the new tab page is infected with some office-clippy-esque garbage that you have to click *into* to get rid of (there's absolutely no UI affordance to indicate that's the only way to shoo it away).

I was all set to ditch chromium on my gentoo boxes this week if this lived up to the (grating) performance hype, but now instead I'm dreading having to spend the better part of a week combing through the old mozillazine wiki to neuter it with a prefs.js before it gets a chance to bite me.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
I was all set to ditch chromium on my gentoo boxes this week if this lived up to the (grating) performance hype, but now instead I'm dreading having to spend the better part of a week combing through the old mozillazine wiki to neuter it with a prefs.js before it gets a chance to bite me.
Sir, if you could post your findings the forum would no doubt thank you.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay. Thanks for the info.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
arnvidr wrote:
But the chrome UI is complete garbage...

Funny since Firexox now looks like a clone of chromium UI :-), with a slightly bigger and less refined bar....
Apparently the decision making in UI improvements involve closely mimicking competitors (as always)
Sure, they've copied the stupid design for a few years, but that is NOT a reason to use chrome ;)

Ever since they changed it, there were plugins to fix it. This new one seems better by default, but you can still do the same changes in userChrome.css (see link in my previous post) manually. I expect WebExtension plugins that can fix this will show up in time. In the complete absence of any alternative I consider usable, I'll still be using firefox.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arnvidr wrote:
erm67 wrote:
arnvidr wrote:
But the chrome UI is complete garbage...

Funny since Firexox now looks like a clone of chromium UI :-), with a slightly bigger and less refined bar....
Apparently the decision making in UI improvements involve closely mimicking competitors (as always)
Sure, they've copied the stupid design for a few years, but that is NOT a reason to use chrome ;)

Ever since they changed it, there were plugins to fix it. This new one seems better by default, but you can still do the same changes in userChrome.css (see link in my previous post) manually. I expect WebExtension plugins that can fix this will show up in time. In the complete absence of any alternative I consider usable, I'll still be using firefox.


There are no alternatives in sight for the near future, anyway since Firefox gave up with their projects of world domination through FirefoxOS it improved a lot. I think some of the old management left since.
It plays nice with the rest of a modern standard linux environment, dbus, systemd ... Now they only need to fully transition to Wayland, but since servo already supports Wayland it shold be easy once they fully switch to servo.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
It plays nice with the rest of a modern standard linux environment, dbus, systemd ...

*trolly noises*
*sniff sniff*
*mhhhh, delicious*
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What has happen to ALSA and pulsa doom audio?
It just craps out all over the linux distributions!!
I hate it.
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