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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Where is going QT? Reply with quote

To compile only of of the dev-qt software, qtwebengine, it take more time than to compile libreoffice. And qtwebkit is not better in that regard. This imply I am seriously considering to get ride of the few packages which need them.

Which also imply the following question: Where T F is going QT?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't used Gentoo since like 2013, but WebKit was definitely a massive problem in terms of compile time, and I'm not sure why.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do realise it's not 2005? The only reason anyone used KDE was because of K3b
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
You do realise it's not 2005? The only reason anyone used KDE was because of K3b


Digikam was good too IIRC, as was Amarok.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amarok still has no equal.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genlop -t qtcore

Wed Oct 11 20:44:45 2017 >>> dev-qt/qtcore-5.9.2
merge time: 1 minute and 30 seconds.


and this is with LTO enabled
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Qt takes a long time to compile because it implements a lot of commonly useful code, similar, but not exactly like, Boost. If you look at this infographic you will see that GTK+ is actually made up of around 9 separate libraries. Qt combines the same functionality as one project. Qt is also written in C++ and makes use of templates, which can be very expensive to compile. As for QtWebKit, please suffice it to say that fully featured rendering engines are extremely complex.

I personally tend to lean towards favoring GTK+. It feels more Unix-like and very clean. At the same time, Qt5 is a good piece of software engineering that makes rapid prototyping a reality. For most people that aspect can dominate all other concerns, and was the major cause of the popularity of products like Borland's Delphi.

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Last edited by R0b0t1 on Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTK-3 sucks. Big time. I wonder if there is a configuration guide somewhere. Open File dialog windows are despicable.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
You do realise it's not 2005? The only reason anyone used KDE was because of K3b


Sometimes. When you look real careful. The world seems like it's 1905.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover,

See https://askubuntu.com/questions/96375/why-are-my-file-selection-dialogs-so-big-how-do-i-make-them-smaller.

I agree some choices are not the best, but overall the codebase is very nice. However configuration and skinning has been an issue in the past and still seems to be an issue, but I have never found very accessible support for that as part of a toolkit. Sometimes individual applications will be extremely configurable, but it is hard to expose all functionality via a standard interface.


I will agree that the wider adoption of Qt may be in part due to recent changes to GTK+.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
GTK-3 sucks. Big time. I wonder if there is a configuration guide somewhere. Open File dialog windows are despicable.

That's the problem with the gnome/gtk philosophy. They think they know better than the user how to configure things, which result into a mouse configuration that is so minimalist I was never able to configure the mouse the way I like it to behavior. And the gconf thing is like the windows config database: mostly undocumented. Which mean mostly unusable.

But QT/kde is not much better. It is full with options into the kde preferences, but I was not able to configure my mouse. It is full with options, but it lack the fundamental ones which are focus follow mouse or click to focus, that combined in both cases with raise or not raise. This is the main reason why I am still using fvwm with the fvwm-crystal desktop. It is not modern, but at least it work without to be in my way.

R0b0t1 wrote:
At the same time, Qt5 is a good piece of software engineering that makes rapid prototyping a reality. For most people that aspect can dominate all other concerns, and was the major cause of the popularity of products like Borland's Delphi.


This is a short view. My first decent computer was an Amiga 2000, and its Visual Basic was fully integrated with the unique toolkit of the Amiga OS. The result was the easiest and fastest GUI environment for programmers I have never seen, and a resulting code that was 100 % maintenance free with the update of the system.

We can also talk about performances and ease of use. Software like cinelerra have their own toolkits because their developers found it both more efficient and easier to use, and also more maintenance free on the long run. A big issue with both gtk and qt is, from time to time, they made major updates which break any existing code based on them. The shift from kde3 to kde4 was a caricature of that situation. Full of good software just disappeared forever, or the new versions was providing only a small part of the functionalities of the last kde3 version (ex: kaffeine).

As a programmer, that will definitely impact my decision about which toolkit to use. As an user, I care mostly about how easily I can do a given task, and also about a maintenance free result of the work I done. But on gentoo, compilation time is important. emerge begun to compile qtwebengine it was about 24 hours ago, and it is still compiling. That imply, as soon my world update is done, I will remove the only software I have that depend on it and look for alternatives. At first, I need the cpu power to make work.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to admit, 24 hours is a little ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
You have to admit, 24 hours is a little ridiculous.

It will be more, it is not done yet.

As any computer in the world, my 3 years old laptop make what it can. Which give us another issue: a toolkit like qt is resource hungry, and with time going on, it need more and more resources, which make your computer obsolete very fast.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on Debian now. :P
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm on Debian now. :P


I think OP might want to use this distro
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody uses Gnome now.

Even energyman76b.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Everybody uses Gnome now.

Even energyman76b.


Gnome is nice
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm on Debian now. :P


I think OP might want to use this distro

아니요, 감사.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm on Debian now. :P
Are you just using Windows now, or do you rely on anything else (routers, etc. not included)?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm on Debian now. :P
Are you just using Windows now, or do you rely on anything else (routers, etc. not included)?

Windows 10 has been banished to a VM. I really only use it for work. The desktop itself runs Debian and my router runs LEDE. Except for my access point, it runs factory firmware.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, OK. I thought you were joking about Debian.

One of these days I'm going to set up a BINHOST and see if I like that better. I've been eyeing OpenBSD. It's on my VM test list if I ever get around to that. Low priority.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I messed with FreeBSD and NetBSD a while back. I found that I never got along with FreeBSD, but NetBSD and I got along really well.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
You have to admit, 24 hours is a little ridiculous.
.

Yep, it was over the top - I didn't really watch after the first series.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bored and am installing Debian GNU/Hurd.
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