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todd93
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Considering a return to Gentoo. Reply with quote

Hi, everyone, I am a former Gentoo user, however, due to several issues, I chose to leave Gentoo for a while. Now the point has come where my old machine is 7 years old and barely hanging on lol! I'm currently building a new machine with an AMD Ryzen 1700 cpu, decent video card, 16gb memory, ssd, etc.

I have been using Ubuntu since leaving Gentoo as my Linux distro. Ubuntu is ok for most things, however, it doesn't run as stable as Gentoo does, largely due to the fact that Gentoo is compiled, and seems to be rock solid because of it. Some of the issues that I had with Gentoo, though, was the new gnome, I simply just don't like it, nor do I care for KDE that much, however, I do like mate.

I was hoping to get some input on the status of mate with Gentoo, how well Gentoo installs these days, has there been any progress on the installation process, or is it largely unchanged? Also, I'm not fond of compiling new kernels without Pappy's seeds, as it really streamlined the kernel compilation. I know and understand why Pappy no longer does the seeds, as I'm positive they take ENORMOUS amounts of time, but he did an amazing job with them. Again, I'm not sure if I'm going to do it or not, but I know I'll be happier with a solid Gentoo install than I am with Ubuntu.

Thanks everyone for any input I can get!

Todd
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vaxbrat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Welcome back Reply with quote

Watch the Ryzen discussion thread for updates on getting it working. If you haven't mounted your fan yet, check the top of the chip to figure out what week number it was baked. Anything prior to week 25 will probably have issues with waking back up from sleep modes and have problems if you compile with all 16 threads enabled. It's a bummer, but my two builds are mostly stabilized.

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1069652-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also note that AMD is handling RMAs for affected processors. Experiences with the RMA process vary, but several have been posted in the thread mentioned by vaxbrat.

Perhaps some good news, in a limited manner, Pappy is again making seeds. This time, he's only doing so for vanilla sources. You can read more in Pappy's preconfigs!.

I don't use MATE, so unfortunately can't comment on that. However, the stable version on adm64 is:
mate-base/mate (1.12-r1)

As for the install process, I just installed a new OS on an older AMD system, and had no troubles. I started with a thumb drive of systemrescuecd and was done with a base system relatively quickly. Overall I don't perceive the process to have changed much since my first installation, but I never thought it seemed that difficult.

Also, if you are still running a Linux distro and have disk space available, you can install Gentoo while still using the existing Linux install, so the downtime would be minimal.
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Last edited by pjp on Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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todd93
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Welcome back Reply with quote

vaxbrat wrote:
Watch the Ryzen discussion thread for updates on getting it working. If you haven't mounted your fan yet, check the top of the chip to figure out what week number it was baked. Anything prior to week 25 will probably have issues with waking back up from sleep modes and have problems if you compile with all 16 threads enabled. It's a bummer, but my two builds are mostly stabilized.

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1069652-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html


Thanks so much for the info! Unfortunately, I have already mounted the fan lol and I was afraid of the Ryzen having issues. I have no doubt, however, that the developers can clear the hurdle at some point, they're smart folks. And to think, I was on the verge of building with an Intel chip, but decided to stick with AMD. LOL.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I don't use MATE, so unfortunately can't comment on that. However, the stable version on adm64 is:
mate-base/mate (1.12-r1)


I use mate and it's a reasonable clone of Gnome2. Besides the official mate, there is mate from soka's overlay which strips out the RedHat kits
I run that too on one machine. Runs well. I'm just too lazy to upgrade the other machine.

https://github.com/soka1578/mate-overlay
See also https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1057224.html?sid=bc6e04d0636a54b3607cc3b90bcb15b2
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat. Not (yet) an installation question so it fits better here.

- John
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krinn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better find another distro, nothing has change, and you'll be as disappointed as before then.
The only thing that change with gentoo should be "you", but it seems you're still unable to build a kernel without help, it mean you didn't evolve in handling linux, and your questions about "gentoo installation" also highlight that.
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todd93
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
Better find another distro, nothing has change, and you'll be as disappointed as before then.


You better find another post to troll. If you'd read mine to begin with, you would have seen that I'm not at all disappointed in Gentoo. In fact, it's my favorite distro.

Quote:
The only thing that change with gentoo should be "you", but it seems you're still unable to build a kernel without help, it mean you didn't evolve in handling linux, and your questions about "gentoo installation" also highlight that.


Again, who said that I am unable to build a kernel without help? That was you. I enjoy using Pappy's seeds, but I never said that I'm unable to build a kernel without help. Instead of being a stuck up jerk, you should've just kept your mouth shut. I would suggest that you actually know what you're talking about before you troll someone's post in a failed attempt to call them stupid. If you would like to know why I left Gentoo to begin with, it was no single thing, in fact, I was having some hardware compatibility problems that I could not deal with at the time. Thanks for the input, jerk.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seems to fail to learn anything, even from a social point of view.
You are just insulting me? Because you don't like my answer?
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todd93
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
You seems to fail to learn anything, even from a social point of view.
You are just insulting me? Because you don't like my answer?


You insulted me with your answer. You basically said that I'm too stupid to use Gentoo, which is obviously not the case. I'm smart enough to take a long, objective look at EVERYTHING before I do it. Also, when insulted, I am well within my rights to defend myself. You should have just kept browsing and not commented on this thread. But, apparently you're the one who fails to learn anything. You said what you wanted to say, now leave me alone....
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddyseagoon bangs a few heads together.

Locked for 24 hours, or so.

-- edit 6 Oct 15:30 BST --

Unlocked after todd93 and krinn sorting things out via PM.
I'm tempted to hide the misunderstandings.

todd93, krinn thats your call?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Considering a return to Gentoo. Reply with quote

todd93 wrote:
Hi, everyone, I am a former Gentoo user, however, due to several issues, I chose to leave Gentoo for a while. Now the point has come where my old machine is 7 years old and barely hanging on lol! I'm currently building a new machine with an AMD Ryzen 1700 cpu, decent video card, 16gb memory, ssd, etc.

I have been using Ubuntu since leaving Gentoo as my Linux distro. Ubuntu is ok for most things, however, it doesn't run as stable as Gentoo does, largely due to the fact that Gentoo is compiled, and seems to be rock solid because of it. Some of the issues that I had with Gentoo, though, was the new gnome, I simply just don't like it, nor do I care for KDE that much, however, I do like mate.

I was hoping to get some input on the status of mate with Gentoo, how well Gentoo installs these days, has there been any progress on the installation process, or is it largely unchanged? Also, I'm not fond of compiling new kernels without Pappy's seeds, as it really streamlined the kernel compilation. I know and understand why Pappy no longer does the seeds, as I'm positive they take ENORMOUS amounts of time, but he did an amazing job with them. Again, I'm not sure if I'm going to do it or not, but I know I'll be happier with a solid Gentoo install than I am with Ubuntu.

Thanks everyone for any input I can get!

Todd

I think you should try Linux From Scratch.
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todd93
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Considering a return to Gentoo. Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
todd93 wrote:
Hi, everyone, I am a former Gentoo user, however, due to several issues, I chose to leave Gentoo for a while. Now the point has come where my old machine is 7 years old and barely hanging on lol! I'm currently building a new machine with an AMD Ryzen 1700 cpu, decent video card, 16gb memory, ssd, etc.

I have been using Ubuntu since leaving Gentoo as my Linux distro. Ubuntu is ok for most things, however, it doesn't run as stable as Gentoo does, largely due to the fact that Gentoo is compiled, and seems to be rock solid because of it. Some of the issues that I had with Gentoo, though, was the new gnome, I simply just don't like it, nor do I care for KDE that much, however, I do like mate.

I was hoping to get some input on the status of mate with Gentoo, how well Gentoo installs these days, has there been any progress on the installation process, or is it largely unchanged? Also, I'm not fond of compiling new kernels without Pappy's seeds, as it really streamlined the kernel compilation. I know and understand why Pappy no longer does the seeds, as I'm positive they take ENORMOUS amounts of time, but he did an amazing job with them. Again, I'm not sure if I'm going to do it or not, but I know I'll be happier with a solid Gentoo install than I am with Ubuntu.

Thanks everyone for any input I can get!

Todd

I think you should try Linux From Scratch.


I've thought about that as well! To be honest, one of the most fun times for me when I build a new machine is choosing a Linux distro!
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

todd93,

In 2002, I boiled it down to LFS and Gentoo. Gentoo won because I didn't need to do the job of the package manager in a notebook.
I've stayed with Gentoo.
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Dorsai!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people really consider LFS a real distro for actual day-to-day use?

I always thought of it more as a project purely for learning how a linux system is built.
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todd93
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
todd93,

In 2002, I boiled it down to LFS and Gentoo. Gentoo won because I didn't need to do the job of the package manager in a notebook.
I've stayed with Gentoo.


This is all quite interesting, LFS is quite intriguing. The only hangup I'm having now is the issues with the Ryzen cpu are making me just a little apprehensive about pulling the trigger on going back to Gentoo. I'm going to have to do some more research on the issues. I still feel that Gentoo is about the best distro due to the package manager. I'm still up in the air about it
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorsai! wrote:
Do people really consider LFS a real distro for actual day-to-day use?

I always thought of it more as a project purely for learning how a linux system is built.
A couple of years ago I started going through the LFS guide. I didn't get very far before I tried to "make it easier." And it wasn't long after that when I realized I was crudely implementing ebuild features. Once I realized that, I just stopped. I may eventually go back, but in the long run, I think for anything I'd do different from Gentoo, an overlay ought to work.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorsai! wrote:
Do people really consider LFS a real distro for actual day-to-day use?

I always thought of it more as a project purely for learning how a linux system is built.

At some point I see myself running only two netbooks, one airgapped (as in opening it up and yanking out the wifi and bluetooth innards) and doing net stuff with the other.

LFS would be a candidate for the airgap. I'd have to see how much time I'd be willing to invest in it all, but an annoyance with all distros, including Gentoo, is that things are often engineered from the perspective of what makes the most sense for supporting many novice users. So you end up with udev.d or genkernel or systemd where you have software that handles every conceivable contingency but is overly complex as a result. My understanding of the distro landscape right now is that LFS would be the only way of cutting through that.

It would only really work on an airgap though. But a good install of emacs goes a long way.
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R0b0t1
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The largest problem with LFS is that the system you generate will, by default, have a huge number of exploits and errata due to the lack of patches.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up choosing Gentoo because it was the last one I tried that seemed to satisfy two conditions:

1 - that I never had to reinstall from scratch again. I was a RH'er for several versions and the reinstall-upgrades were tiring.
2 - that had an update manager that would notify of and update individual packages. RH9 was the last RH that I used and I missed the updates, and Fedora's chance came after I gave Gentoo a try. Slackware "upgrades" was the problem I was avoiding.

Otherwise Linux is Linux, but it's the package manager that made the difference.
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MarginallyStable
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject: I'm back Reply with quote

I was a longtime gentoo user myself, and after a couple years away I have decided to return. I built a new Ryzen 1700 machine and went directly through the gentoo install. I am very happy to be back, things are running smooth as ever !
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you do is build LFS and then use it to bootstrap yourself a gentoo install. Then you kinda sorta still have it.
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