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flysideways
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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 Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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That does not matter to the True Believers.
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The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
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richk449
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Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | That does not matter to the True Believers. |
It makes Gore a hypocrite. But it doesn't change any of the facts about global warming, or what we need to do about it. |
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sugar
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: Morrinsville, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | No Problem. The risk from a sudden and drastic change in the climate is nill. The climate has always been variable.
There are much more immediate and threatening things to our existence than a warming trend. |
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-the-insurance-industry-is-dealing-with-climate-change-52218/
| Quote: | | “Our business depends on us being neutral. We simply try to make the best possible assessment of risk today, with no vested interest,” says Robert Muir-Wood, the chief scientist of Risk Management Solutions (RMS), a company that creates software models to allow insurance companies to calculate risk. “In the past, when making these assessments, we looked to history. But in fact, we’ve now realized that that’s no longer a safe assumption—we can see, with certain phenomena in certain parts of the world, that the activity today is not simply the average of history.” |
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sugar
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flysideways
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Muso
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:10 am Post subject: |
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We should all live by his example. I plan to.
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patrix_neo
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 518
Location: The Maldives
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have found the reason for ice sheets loosing off west antarctica.
As has been told before to me is that the ice increase in the "eastern" antarctica and decrease in the western part. Now here is evidence to why it might be so, besides a man bear pig spewing out CO2.
| Quote: |
Scientists at the University of Edinburgh came to this conclusion after they found 91 volcanoes that had remained hidden from geological surveys. The results brought the total of identified volcanoes on the continent to 138—all of which are in an area called the West Antarctic Rift System. The finding unseats east Africa as the area of the world with the highest concentration of volcanoes
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pjp
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| patrix_neo wrote: | I have found the reason for ice sheets loosing off west antarctica.
As has been told before to me is that the ice increase in the "eastern" antarctica and decrease in the western part. Now here is evidence to why it might be so, besides a man bear pig spewing out CO2.
| Quote: |
Scientists at the University of Edinburgh came to this conclusion after they found 91 volcanoes that had remained hidden from geological surveys. The results brought the total of identified volcanoes on the continent to 138—all of which are in an area called the West Antarctic Rift System. The finding unseats east Africa as the area of the world with the highest concentration of volcanoes
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I think you may have overlooked the part where all findings support climate change: melting ice caps could cause the Earth’s top layer to “bounce back” and trigger volcanoes.
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patrix_neo
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: |
I think you may have overlooked the part where all findings support climate change: melting ice caps could cause the Earth’s top layer to “bounce back” and trigger volcanoes. |
Melting because of volcanic activity is almost even more possible cause to begin with. Which causes more volcanic activity. Here we talk about real positive/negative feedback mechanisms. |
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HungGarTiger
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Joined: 04 Feb 2014
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| cokey wrote: | | how much it will affect our lives (you and I? Apart from skin cancer and refugees probably not much in the next 30 years). |
I am ok with this... I'm going to buy that Holden afterall |
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John-Boy
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: |
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What's he running ?
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Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
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Muso
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| John-Boy wrote: |
What's he running ? |
A huge scam.
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: |
What's he running ? |
A huge scam. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Big data finds the Medieval Warm Period – no denial here
It was all of those medieval knights driving their SUVs... and those peasants with their trucks.
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ratmonkey
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Science aside, here's what I don't get about climate change denial... Why would tens of thousands of climate scientists in more than 80 developed countries with damn near every different cultures and political motivation you can think of all band together to propagate this conspiracy with 91-97% consensus (depending on which consensus survey you trust the most)? Why would 195 countries all be willing to sign the largely symbolic Paris Climate Agreement in honor of this conspiracy? That's an insanely massive scale to keep that big of a secret with. And the secret is just going to get harder and harder to keep going forward. With IOT and the expansion of the internet, it's just going to become even easier for any amateur to harvest raw temperature data from around the world to see if the trends over time match up with what the keepers of this conspiracy are saying.
The whole idea of a vast and massive conspiracy at this scale would need an insanely powerful motivation to keep that many people all marching together in unison. I've read plenty of denier's theories on what that motivation is and most of them are either ridiculous, stupid, or just comically silly. Even if you completely ignore the science part of this discussion, this whole idea of a conspiracy is on pretty shaky ground from the get go. |
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Muso
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| ratmonkey wrote: | | Science aside, here's what I don't get about climate change denial. |
Wrong assumption. It's not denying that the climate is changing... it's always changing. It's the assumption that through bad computer models with manipulated data (garbage in, garbage out), that people can definitively claim that human activity is the driving force behind the changing climate.
We don't know everything. We, as a species, are just a couple million years out of hanging in trees. The sheer arrogance of claiming to "know" something as complex as the climate while ignoring known and unknown variables and manipulating the data to fit a conclusion is just too much "religion" for the skeptics.
As to the rest of your post... Money is quite the motivator. I offer up the whole of human activity as skeptics' exhibit A.
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ratmonkey
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | ratmonkey wrote: | | Science aside, here's what I don't get about climate change denial. |
Wrong assumption. It's not denying that the climate is changing... it's always changing. It's the assumption that through bad computer models with manipulated data (garbage in, garbage out), that people can definitively claim that human activity is the driving force behind the changing climate. |
Pedantic... We were already on the same page since any common reference to climate change deniers or skeptics refers to people who don't believe that climate change is human caused. Your statement implies you are quite the academic expert on climate science and climate data analysis. I'm sure your credentials are impeccible. 
| Muso wrote: | | We don't know everything. We, as a species, are just a couple million years out of hanging in trees. The sheer arrogance of claiming to "know" something as complex as the climate while ignoring known and unknown variables and manipulating the data to fit a conclusion is just too much "religion" for the skeptics. |
I'm still having trouble with this whole tens of thousands of scientists across the world, from disparate countries, across many different cultures based on sometimes opposing ideologies, all deciding to get together in an inexplicable moment of unity to all manipulate the peer review system in conjunction. Keeping secrets is hard with only a few people involved, and keeping people with that wide of a background all on message is a seemingly impossible task. If it is a conspiracy, it's got to be the greatest conspiracy of all time the way I see it.
| Muso wrote: | | As to the rest of your post... Money is quite the motivator. I offer up the whole of human activity as skeptics' exhibit A. |
| http://www.environmentalscience.org/career/climatologist wrote: | | What Is the Average Climatologist Salary? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2012 the median annual salary for atmospheric scientists including climatologists was $89,260 with a salary range between $49,120, and $134,730. |
The big bucks!!! |
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Muso
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| ratmonkey wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | ratmonkey wrote: | | Science aside, here's what I don't get about climate change denial. |
Wrong assumption. It's not denying that the climate is changing... it's always changing. It's the assumption that through bad computer models with manipulated data (garbage in, garbage out), that people can definitively claim that human activity is the driving force behind the changing climate. |
Pedantic... We were already on the same page since any common reference to climate change deniers or skeptics refers to people who don't believe that climate change is human caused. Your statement implies you are quite the academic expert on climate science and climate data analysis. I'm sure your credentials are impeccible. |
As a human being I claim the right to use logic, reason, and evidence.
You claim the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority.
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ratmonkey
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | ratmonkey wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | ratmonkey wrote: | | Science aside, here's what I don't get about climate change denial. |
Wrong assumption. It's not denying that the climate is changing... it's always changing. It's the assumption that through bad computer models with manipulated data (garbage in, garbage out), that people can definitively claim that human activity is the driving force behind the changing climate. |
Pedantic... We were already on the same page since any common reference to climate change deniers or skeptics refers to people who don't believe that climate change is human caused. Your statement implies you are quite the academic expert on climate science and climate data analysis. I'm sure your credentials are impeccible. |
As a human being I claim the right to use logic, reason, and evidence.
You claim the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority. |
That's a pity... I was going more for a run of the mill ad hominen. I guess I messed that all up. If we're going to do the logical fallacy thing, it's worth noting that you're begging the question, stacking the deck, and making an appeal to a biased authority. I honestly have no interest in debating whether climate change is caused by humans with you as it would be a pointless endeavour where neither of us will change our minds or back down on our stance.
I still think the more interesting part of the discussion is the potential motivations behind the alleged massive worldwide conspiracy of climatologists to falsify and misrepresent the data. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ratmonkey wrote: | | I still think the more interesting part of the discussion is the potential motivations behind the alleged massive worldwide conspiracy of climatologists to falsify and misrepresent the data. |
Simple. It ain't rocket science.
$$$$$$
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The Future Ain't What It Used To Be
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
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sugar
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Location: Morrinsville, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | ratmonkey wrote: | | I still think the more interesting part of the discussion is the potential motivations behind the alleged massive worldwide conspiracy of climatologists to falsify and misrepresent the data. |
Simple. It ain't rocket science.
$$$$$$ |
rich scientists beating up on poorly funded petrochemical industry.
Also, doesn't change that CO2 is still a greenhouse gas.
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sugar
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Review of Exxon Mobil documents indicate that Exxon understood and chose to mislead the public about climate change.
“On the question of whether ExxonMobil misled non-scientific audiences about climate science, our analysis supports the conclusion that it did,” Dr Geoffrey Supran and Dr Naomi Oreskes state in the study published in the journal Environmental Research Letters on Wednesday.
The year-long study is an expansive, quantitative, independent corroboration of the findings of investigative journalists, whom ExxonMobil had accused of using “deliberately cherry-picked statements”. This latest peer-reviewed work goes further, showing ExxonMobil knew about the basic realities of climate change decades ago, and simultaneously communicated positions that were at odds with this knowledge to the general public.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/exxonmobil-misled-public-for-40-years-on-climate-change-study-finds-1.3195921
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Muso
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pjp
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | giving countries more time to get a grip on their carbon output.
An unexpected “revolution” in affordable renewable energy has also contributed to the more positive outlook.
Experts now say there is a two-in-three chance of keeping global temperatures within 1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels, the ultimate goal of the 2015 Paris Agreement. |
Billy: It's finding the center of your story, the beating heart of it, that's what makes a reporter. You have to start by making up some headlines. You know: short, punchy, dramatic headlines. Now, have a look, what do you see?
[Points at dark clouds at the horizon]
Billy: Tell me the headline.
Quoyle: Horizon Fills With Dark Clouds?
Billy: Imminent Storm Threatens Village.
Quoyle: But what if no storm comes?
Billy: Village Spared From Deadly Storm.
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