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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | I think the (now thankfully dead) ion3 WM holds that crown. BS license, and the author actively went around harassing distros that tried to package it. |
It's true it was never going to work as a free license, because you cannot force the user (recipient: so anyone downstream of you) to do anything, in this case upgrade.
Nevertheless, the guy had a point: distros were bundling really old versions, ie: two or three major versions behind, along with bugs that he'd already fixed in later versions; and he was expected to support their end-users, as every distro IRC room would simply point users at his channel.
(You try telling the average bindist end-user to upgrade their software from source, rather than the distro.)
The whole point of free software was meant to be about a collaborative environment between users, programmers and admins, without middle-men.
Yet (binary) distros are in exactly that position, and the programmer and team get screwed, lumbered with unpaid support on top of unpaid coding.
The least distros can do in the above situation, is keep the software reasonably up to date; after all, they're the ones making money out of the process. |
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tld
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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As I write this I'm attempting to compile palemoon from the palemoon overlay (https://github.com/deuiore/palemoon-overlay.git). Not sure I have a lot of faith that it'll work. I had to reconfigure my PORTAGE_TMPDIR to a new directory with enough space and also had to use the PALEMOON_ENABLE_UNSUPPORTED_COMPILERS environment variable to bypass the fact that > gcc 4 is apparently not supported. Will see how it goes or not.
I didn't get a good feeling about the fact that I was unable to find out with any search what palemoon uses as a user home directory. Can anyone tell me what it used? Thanks in advance!
Tom |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| tld wrote: | | and also had to use the PALEMOON_ENABLE_UNSUPPORTED_COMPILERS environment variable to bypass the fact that > gcc 4 is apparently not supported. |
You may need an environment file to tell it to use the old standard(s). I had to to do that to a package but other than that one, I was able to compile world with gcc 6.3.0 IIRC I compiled palemon-25.x with 5.4. I now do the binary downloads as it's a bear to build and performance is no better.
For the binaries: SRC_URI="http://linux.palemoon.org/datastore/release/palemoon-${PV}.en-US.linux-x86_64.tar.bz2"
For the source: ftp://ftp2.palemoon.org/
This statement (http://www.palemoon.org/sourcecode.shtml) rather flies in the face of Open Source philosophy: | Quote: | Pale Moon source code
This page is intended mainly for people interested in the code changes and people needing to audit the browser code for security purposes. As a regular user, you don't need the source code of the browser.
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tld
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, I'm running gcc 5.4 here. I'm also on a 32 bit machine so I'm really pushing things. I'll see how it goes. For me, the performance difference going from firefox-bin to compiled firefox was huge...not sure why, or if that would be the case with palemoon. I also wasn't happy with a lot of the -bin dependencies.
The world just plain seems to need a new browser from someone with a clue. It's really disheartening. Here's something FF has been doing to me that just about makes me throw my computer out the window:
I recently disabled NoScript, at least for now, because I just plain got tired of the entire web being broken...still not sure which I hate more...using it or not....that aside: Recently I'll be keying in a Google search and apparently the JS will start doing something that causes the text box to loose focus. By the time I notice I've keyed half of my search in the dialog for finding text on the current page...OMG...pushes me to the fucking edge.
Tom |
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tld
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | This statement (http://www.palemoon.org/sourcecode.shtml) rather flies in the face of Open Source philosophy: | Quote: | Pale Moon source code
This page is intended mainly for people interested in the code changes and people needing to audit the browser code for security purposes. As a regular user, you don't need the source code of the browser.
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It sure does...not to mention the stuff you previously discussed about them requiring the license agreement to be in the correct font, making it impossible in plain text...FFS. I've yet to see too much that makes be feel all that much better about the palemoon devs than I do about the FF devs frankly.
For example...again...can some one please tell me where palemoon stores it's crap under a user home in Linux...since it's apparently a deep dark secret. That sort of crap is inexcusable to me.
Tom |
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tdude
n00b
Joined: 26 Feb 2016
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | For example...again...can some one please tell me where palemoon stores it's crap under a user home in Linux...since it's apparently a deep dark secret. |
~/.moonchild\ productions/pale\ moon/ |
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tld
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wow...I guess I should tone down the complaints a bit  . I've installed www-client/palemoon-27.4.1 from the palemoon overlay (https://github.com/deuiore/palemoon-overlay.git) with gcc 5.4.0 apparently without a hitch in about the same time it takes for me to compile FF. Given the system I'm on that's saying a lot. Haven't used it too much as yet, but it's looking pretty awesome. Clearly using way less RAM than FF for sure.
I think, though I can't be sure, that the required tmp space that ebuild requires (7 GB I believe it was...enough where I had to relocate my PORTAGE_TMPDIR) may be really overstated. I can't be sure but I don't think it ever used more than 2.
Looking good though.
Tom |
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tld
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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OMG...I have to admit, I am LOVING palemoon. It makes me realize just how far downhill firefox has gone. I've found sites that literally respond several times faster in palemoon than in FF...crazy.
Between that and finally managing to jettison the Godless nvidia-drivers (where my required legacy 304.xx driver won't play nice with the 4.12 kernel as usual) in favor of nouveau I'm on a roll here  .
Tom |
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Just reading the history on this thread for the browser package and wondering if the only reason it has not been included in the main gentoo repo is because of this licensing issue? Seems bizarre but I guess as long as there is an overlay that allows it, then why bother trying to hassle the upstream developers for permission??
From a user standpoint though it is just unfortunate that the only way i had to learn about such packages is not through my usual search with emerge or eix database query. And of course that means I am late to chime in on this topic, but I have had no complaints with FF as my primary browser. The other ones I use are Opera or on occasion Luakit. Why would someone want to switch to the Palemoon? Could someone please confirm the advantage of using this browser as anything beyond the low memory usage, which is certainly beneficial but hardly the criteria I care most about when it comes to using the WWW. |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| LIsLinuxIsSogood wrote: | | Why would someone want to switch to the Palemoon? Could someone please confirm the advantage of using this browser as anything beyond the low memory usage, which is certainly beneficial but hardly the criteria I care most about when it comes to using the WWW. |
The user interface doesn't change. FF seems to change every version. The PM interface is basically FF before Australis. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I've switched over to palemoon for most browsing, keeping FF for a backup, if needed.
Running the latest 27.9.0 with no problems.
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
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Yamakuzure
Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2284
Location: Adendorf, Germany
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, that time I tried, Palemoon forces you to use gcc-4. There were some versions which could be built with gcc-6, but when that ceased to work, I threw it off my machines.
_________________
Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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As of 27.7.2, it builds with gcc-6.4.0 and probably higher.
I haven't built it in a long while, instead using my own palemoon-bin ebuild. | Code: | EAPI=6
inherit eutils xdg-utils gnome2-utils
DESCRIPTION="ebuild for palemoon browser binary install"
HOMEPAGE="http://www.palemoon.org"
SRC_URI="http://linux.palemoon.org/datastore/release/palemoon-${PV}.en-US.linux-x86_64.tar.bz2"
SLOT="0"
KEYWORDS="~amd64"
RESTRICT="mirror"
IUSE=" "
DEPEND=""
#all runtime dependencies are contained in downloaded tarball
RDEPEND="${DEPEND}"
S="${WORKDIR}"
src_install() {
mkdir "${S}"/palemoon-bin
cp -R "${S}"/palemoon/* "${S}"/palemoon-bin
# files will be installed to /opt rather than /usr/bin
insinto /opt
# the untarred files are in work/palemoon
# this command copies them from there to /opt/palemoon-bin (not /opt as you might think)
doins -r "${S}"/palemoon-bin
dodir /usr/bin
dosym "${ED%/}"/opt/palemoon-bin/palemoon-bin /usr/bin/palemoon-bin
# following cribbed from firefox-bin ebuild
local size sizes icon_path icon name
sizes="16 32 48"
icon_path="${S}/palemoon-bin/browser/chrome/icons/default"
icon="${PN}"
name="Palemoon"
# Install icons and .desktop for menu entry
for size in ${sizes}; do
insinto "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/${size}x${size}/apps"
newins "${icon_path}/default${size}.png" "${icon}.png" || die
done
# The 128x128 icon has a different name
insinto "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/128x128/apps"
newins "${S}/palemoon-bin/browser/icons/mozicon128.png" "${icon}.png" || die
# Install a 48x48 icon into /usr/share/pixmaps for legacy DEs
newicon "${S}"/palemoon-bin/browser/chrome/icons/default/default48.png ${PN}.png
domenu "${FILESDIR}"/icon/${PN}.desktop
}
pkg_postinst()
{
chmod +x /opt/palemoon-bin/palemoon-bin
gnome2_icon_cache_update
xdg_desktop_database_update
}
pkg_postrm()
{
gnome2_icon_cache_update
xdg_desktop_database_update
}
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My non-bin ebuild was the overlay ebuild with fixes, one of which was eliminating "GCC_SUPPORTED_VERSIONS".
The author won't provide support for higher than gcc-4, but it does build and work. It just doesn't seem to be any better than the bin version that moonchild provides as a tarball. The same comment applies to Firefox. Your mileage may vary. I have a rather slow ISP and fast CPU so I don't notice any difference.
dektop entry http://dpaste.com/0Q4Q6ZF |
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Does the ebuild you created exist locally for you? How does it find the latest version from upstream, and can it update over time? In other words would you recommend merging with or without —oneshot option for later world set updates. |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:12 am Post subject: |
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It's located in /usr/local/portage/www-client/palemoon-bin.
Every now and then I check "About Palemoon" "Release Notes"
Which I just did and noted that 27.9.2 was released 7 days ago.
So I (as root): | Code: | cd /usr/local/portage/www-client/palemoon-bin
nano palemoon-bin-27.9.1.ebuild
(save it as palemoon-bin-27.9.2.ebuild)
repoman manifest
emerge -auvND palemoon-bin
(it offers 27.9.2 and I hit enter) |
28 seconds later it is installed.
The same should happen if you compile instead of using the tarball, but it will take longer than 28 seconds! |
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