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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Thinking of "moving" to KDE/Plasma Reply with quote

I've mostly been running Xfce4 and Gnome on my Arch installs, and did install Xfce4 on my Gentoo the other week, but am a bit curious of KDE/Plasma.
Note, my Xfce works like charm.

Reading a lot about KDE/Plasma and just wonder if it's buggy/buggier than Xfce? Remember in Arch BBS Forum there were a lot of incidents during Plasma, about a year ago or so.

So, how does it run "out of the box" so to speak following the handbook?

I'm not going to use systemd, at least at this point.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Thinking of "moving" to KDE/Plasma Reply with quote

Hi :)

tuggbuss wrote:
I've mostly been running Xfce4 and Gnome on my Arch installs, and did install Xfce4 on my Gentoo the other week, but am a bit curious of KDE/Plasma.
Note, my Xfce works like charm.



If you've been using XFCE for a significant amount of time, and you don't have a reason that is urging you to move onto something else, then probably plasma is not for you.

But there's really no way to tell if you don't try.

For sure, it's a very different desktop paradigm, so you'll have to test if for some time and see if you like it or not.

In any case, the sure thing is that you will need to change the way you work. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, it's up to you to decide.

Quote:

Reading a lot about KDE/Plasma and just wonder if it's buggy/buggier than Xfce? Remember in Arch BBS Forum there were a lot of incidents during Plasma, about a year ago or so.


Well, it for sure should be a lot smoother now. But, a so-much-larger code base for sure will bring more trouble. It all depends on the concrete parts of the beast that you use. That goes for both, XFCE and KDE. Neither of them is bug-free. You are bound to find more bugs on KDE, but that comes to no surprise since comparing KDE to XFCE, taking SLOCs into account, is like comparing an ant to an elephant.

KDE4 as of now should be rock-solid. KDE5 is nearing that state I'd say as wall. But satellite components are never that solid. You can be sure of that.


Experiences are quite varied. But, if you wish you take my word, you will have to do some dirty work to get kde to work "perfectly", unless you are on a kde distro, such as SuSE.

Performance will highly depend on your video driver, also.
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply.
Well, that about sums it up. I have a 1080 (not the Ti version) with proprietary driver, and i think (hope) it will be enough.
I'll give it a shot, failing = learning :)
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asturm
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plasma-5 'performs' (meaning it feels much more responsive) better than Plasma-4 on my Intel GPU from 8 years ago. So I wouldn't so much say that performance, but experience highly depends on driver quality - Plasma's use of OpenGL exposes a lot of driver bugs. Nvidia users, those with hybrid graphics (the cancer) in particular, probably have the highest hit rate (half the time due to unfortunate USE flag settings), followed by poor neglected Intel GPU users (switching to modesetting helps).

I don't think you'll have to change your workflow much - you can adapt Plasma-5 exactly the way you like, be it Windows clone or something entirely unseen of.
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Plasma-5 'performs' (meaning it feels much more responsive) better than Plasma-4 on my Intel GPU from 8 years ago. So I wouldn't so much say that performance, but experience highly depends on driver quality - Plasma's use of OpenGL exposes a lot of driver bugs. Nvidia users, those with hybrid graphics (the cancer) in particular, probably have the highest hit rate (half the time due to unfortunate USE flag settings), followed by poor neglected Intel GPU users (switching to modesetting helps).

I don't think you'll have to change your workflow much - you can adapt Plasma-5 exactly the way you like, be it Windows clone or something entirely unseen of.


I'll try it out, been t r y i n g plasma in Arch Linux a couple of years ago, i was kind of happy with it. Don't remember what the deal breaker was to go back to Xfce, maybe i will be aware :)
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

circular dependencies?

I cant emerge plasma-meta

Code:
gentoo # emerge --ask kde-plasma/plasma-meta

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6:5" has unmet requirements.
- kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6::gentoo USE="fontconfig gtk3 handbook pulseaudio semantic-desktop -debug -gtk2 -ibus -legacy-systray (-packagekit) -qt4 -scim -test" ABI_X86="64" INPUT_DEVICES="evdev -synaptics"

  The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
    gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

  The above constraints are a subset of the following complete expression:
    legacy-systray? ( any-of ( gtk2 gtk3 qt4 ) ) gtk2? ( legacy-systray ) gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta-5.8.6::gentoo" [ebuild])
(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta" [argument])



Iv'e edited my make.conf with a lot of useflags, and gtk3 indeed is one of the ones in make.conf

I can't seem to figure out what went wrong here.

I switched profile to plasma (without systemd) and updated, Gentoo pulled in 190 packages in about one hour, and now (following the handbook) i want to emerge plasma-meta, but can't according to above message complaining about gtk3

My make.conf

Code:
MAKEOPTS="-j16"
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs 16"
CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
# WARNING: Changing your CHOST is not something that should be done lightly.
# Please consult http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/change-chost.xml before changing.
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
# These are the USE and USE_EXPAND flags that were used for
# buidling in addition to what is provided by the profile.
USE="X bindist gtk3 xfce -qt4 qt5 alsa pulseaudio bluetooth handbook networkmanager python alisp -debug acpi hddtemp lm_sens$
CPU_FLAGS_X86="aes avx avx2 fma3 mmxext popcnt mmx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/tmp"
DISTDIR="${PORTDIR}/distfiles"
PKGDIR="${PORTDIR}/packages"
VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
INPUT_DEVICES="evdev"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://trumpetti.atm.tut.fi/gentoo/ http://mirror.mdfnet.se/gentoo"
GRUB_PLATFORMS="efi-64"
XFCE_PLUGINS="clock power trash"
#FEATURES="ccache"
#CCACHE_SIZE="32G"
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuggbuss wrote:
circular dependencies?

I cant emerge plasma-meta

Code:
gentoo # emerge --ask kde-plasma/plasma-meta

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6:5" has unmet requirements.
- kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6::gentoo USE="fontconfig gtk3 handbook pulseaudio semantic-desktop -debug -gtk2 -ibus -legacy-systray (-packagekit) -qt4 -scim -test" ABI_X86="64" INPUT_DEVICES="evdev -synaptics"

  The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
    gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

  The above constraints are a subset of the following complete expression:
    legacy-systray? ( any-of ( gtk2 gtk3 qt4 ) ) gtk2? ( legacy-systray ) gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta-5.8.6::gentoo" [ebuild])
(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta" [argument])

If you want gtk3 support you need to activate also legacy-systray use flag
Code:
# echo "kde-plasma/plasma-desktop gtk3 legacy-systray" >> /etc/portage/package.use

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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
tuggbuss wrote:
circular dependencies?

I cant emerge plasma-meta

Code:
gentoo # emerge --ask kde-plasma/plasma-meta

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6:5" has unmet requirements.
- kde-plasma/plasma-desktop-5.8.6::gentoo USE="fontconfig gtk3 handbook pulseaudio semantic-desktop -debug -gtk2 -ibus -legacy-systray (-packagekit) -qt4 -scim -test" ABI_X86="64" INPUT_DEVICES="evdev -synaptics"

  The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
    gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

  The above constraints are a subset of the following complete expression:
    legacy-systray? ( any-of ( gtk2 gtk3 qt4 ) ) gtk2? ( legacy-systray ) gtk3? ( legacy-systray )

(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta-5.8.6::gentoo" [ebuild])
(dependency required by "kde-plasma/plasma-meta" [argument])

If you want gtk3 support you need to activate also legacy-systray use flag
Code:
# echo "kde-plasma/plasma-desktop gtk3 legacy-systray" >> /etc/portage/package.use


Aha didn't see that following handbook. Must have missed it. I'll do that immediately
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That solved that part but got so many errors im reverting back to xfce. Now there's a mess in my useflags and dependencies. Going to see if there's a way to uninstall everything but base install some how
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuggbuss wrote:
Aha didn't see that following handbook. Must have missed it. I'll do that immediately

You don't find this type of errors in handbook.

tuggbuss wrote:
That solved that part but got so many errors im reverting back to xfce. Now there's a mess in my useflags and dependencies. Going to see if there's a way to uninstall everything but base install some how

For dependencies you can try emerge --depclean -a (-a is important for check what emerge want uninstall), if plasma-meta is not installed portage remove all orphaned dependencies. For use flag you need to disable manually.
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
tuggbuss wrote:
Aha didn't see that following handbook. Must have missed it. I'll do that immediately

You don't find this type of errors in handbook.

tuggbuss wrote:
That solved that part but got so many errors im reverting back to xfce. Now there's a mess in my useflags and dependencies. Going to see if there's a way to uninstall everything but base install some how

For dependencies you can try emerge --depclean -a (-a is important for check what emerge want uninstall), if plasma-meta is not installed portage remove all orphaned dependencies. For use flag you need to disable manually.


Thank you, im making progress. But some applications are unmerged doing depclean and reinstalled when i update world, it might have to do with some useflags i had enabled. I removed everything except X and a few more, so I'll be aware soon. ☺

E: Update. It all went well, disabling a l o t of useflags in make.conf and package.use/a lot of packages i've uninstalled.

Now i'm back in my familiar environment, it's all good and i clearly see my own knowledge limitations so far is use-flags, i understand the abstract and objectives of them, but for now it's kind of messy to learn them all by heart, where to put them, and why, and the dependencies they create.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuggbuss wrote:
That solved that part but got so many errors im reverting back to xfce.

It would have been interesting to see those.
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
tuggbuss wrote:
That solved that part but got so many errors im reverting back to xfce.

It would have been interesting to see those.


I'm certain it was due to my lack of knowledge. I do remember two or three packages related to bindist use flag. But i'm not sure, not beeing to any help i'm afraid.
I think it was during/before emerging apps-meta package.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bindist USE flag should be set either on or off _globally_. By default, when installing the stage3 tarball, it is on because the stage3 was built that way to be able to be distributed. However, as a user not distributing binaries, you should really drop it from your make.conf.

Lack of knowledge does not mean we can not gather information from your output - the desktop profiles always aim for a trouble-free experience as much as possible. plasma-meta pulls in a lot of dependencies and it is very likely that USE=bindist was indeed your problem.
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tuggbuss
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
The bindist USE flag should be set either on or off _globally_. By default, when installing the stage3 tarball, it is on because the stage3 was built that way to be able to be distributed. However, as a user not distributing binaries, you should really drop it from your make.conf.

Lack of knowledge does not mean we can not gather information from your output - the desktop profiles always aim for a trouble-free experience as much as possible. plasma-meta pulls in a lot of dependencies and it is very likely that USE=bindist was indeed your problem.


Thank you, i've disabled the bindist use flag in make.conf and made sure it isn't in any package.use/
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