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Ottre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lordalbert wrote:
Update: Guix switched to eudev: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2014-09/msg00251.html


Thanks for the heads up, but I've already got that distro on the list, under a different name.

Note to self, check that Vine Linux is still using eudev when Vine Linux 7 is released. According to this page, they are using eudev temporarily:

Quote:

init: upstart maintenance, migration to eudev (measure until future of systemd migration)
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Ottre
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

calculate linux sticking with udev :o

http://www.calculate-linux.org/boards/15/topics/27662
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xdarma
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
And we still don't use eudev as default...
(It's not a problem as any gentoo users knows howto manage their packages and use an alternative to a default package, but just for the message sent to other distros).

I agree with you.
IMO, if I set "-systemd" on use flags, eudev should be the default choice.

@Ottre
Thank you for updating the list. :)
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eflothmeier
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an effort to reduce blocks on software installation I installed eudev
and set the -systemd USE flag on this particular machine I just got
up and running, (It's an old box with wonderfully updated software)

I once advocated for systemd, but find myself opposing it now.
My objection is that it makes it more difficult to maintain one huge
functionality chunk than seperate atoms.

One has to be careful, though. Since systemd
takes over so many meta-layer functionality atoms, (dbus and consolekit
come to mind), upstream developers may not feel obligated to keep
them alive. That means Gentoo must also fork these as it has
done with eudev.

As of this writing Gentoo, is the only major distro still not embracing
systemd. The fact that users are so sensitive to the configuration and
installation of source packages has something to do with that.

Erich
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depontius
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eflothmeier wrote:

As of this writing Gentoo, is the only major distro still not embracing
systemd. The fact that users are so sensitive to the configuration and
installation of source packages has something to do with that.

Erich


There is also Slackware and the new Devuan fork. Really, I don't think that any of them are major distributions these days. But Slackware is the grandaddy, and Gentoo does seem to be a very common infrastructure starting point.
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Lautre
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ottre wrote:
calculate linux sticking with udev :o

http://www.calculate-linux.org/boards/15/topics/27662


Calculate Linux also moved to eudev:
http://www.calculate-linux.org/blogs/en/519/show
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augustin
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
Yea that Debian fork has been pretty big news and really shows just how much disdain there is for systemd. Given how many people use Debian for servers, the decision to go the systemd route was insane. Honestly...how could anyone tolerate systemd on a server. It's just unimaginable to me.

I've noticed an interesting trend of this forum: [...] Lately I see far more noobs that are the opposite...new folks seeking refuge from the insanity that is systemd.

Welcome all! :D

Tom


Hi Tom!

This is my very first post here.
I am soon going to build a new system and I was on the lookout for a new distro with a non-dependency on systemd as a requirement.
I am now very pleased to announce that I am a very soon to be a Linux Gentoo user, switching over from Kubuntu!

Hello to all, and thanks for the welcome, Tom & all.

:)
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

augustin,

Welcome to Gentoo
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augustin
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
augustin,

Welcome to Gentoo


Thank you Neddy.
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Ottre
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lautre wrote:
Calculate Linux also moved to eudev:
http://www.calculate-linux.org/blogs/en/519/show


Thanks for the update! Added Calculate to the list, now that an official release (14.16) has been made.
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Ottre
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the SliTaz developers added eudev to their repo in September 2014, but it looks like they're sticking with udev.

Screencap of SliTaz 5.0 RC3 with udev-182:

http://i.imgur.com/JGyYwKT.png
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Ottre
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting chat on the alpine-devel mailing list about udev replacements.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that was interesting, cheers Ottre.

Followed up wrt whether vdev can replace udev (which is somewhat off-topic for an eudev thread) in judecn's vdev thread.

The discussion on network naming now they've upgraded their base udev to eudev, was a pleasant reminder that it's not just weird Gentoo users who prefer "traditional" network identifiers:
Isaac Dunham wrote:
I, for one, *do* *NOT* *want* udev-style names.

The kernel developers worked for years on moving from driver-specific
names to "ethN"/"wlanN" interface names
. "Predictable" interface naming
a la udev not only reverses those gains, it makes things worse since
anyone who isn't using udev code can't predict interface names even
if they know the driver.
Udev's approach means that if I pull out a network card and replace it,
I have to reconfigure /etc/network/interfaces or whatever else I use.

For what it's worth, Debian Jessie (and Devuan Jessie) use
/lib/udev/write_net_rules to make the kernel name that they detect first
persistent.
(underline added)
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ttkciar
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been -dying- to see Slackware added to your list, and as of today it's finally official! :D

This morning greeted me with this note from Patrick Volkerding in the Slackware ChangeLog:

Quote:
We've made the switch from udev to eudev, and everything seems to be working
perfectly. Big thanks to the eudev team for helping us bring Slackware's
udev up to date! Make sure you remove the old udev and install both of the
new packages (eudev and libgudev), and then the changeover to eudev should
go as smooth as silk. Really, the icu4c upgrade seemed more disruptive. :)
A reboot after this is probably better than "/etc/rc.d/rc.udev force-restart",
but that worked fine here, too. It would also be a good idea to regenerate
the initrd so that it uses eudev, but once again things worked fine here
either way. Have fun!


... followed by a slew of eudev-related changes:

ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/slackware/slackware64-current/ChangeLog.txt

This has totally made my day! Words cannot express.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttkciar wrote:
I have been -dying- to see Slackware added to your list, and as of today it's finally official! :D

This morning greeted me with this note from Patrick Volkerding in the Slackware ChangeLog:

...

This has totally made my day! Words cannot express.

What a nice first post for a new user in the Gentoo forums! Thank you for the word. It's great to see the happiness spread around.
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kurly
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bug 573922 has been established for the purpose of finally adding Gentoo to the list in the first post in this thread. There are still some political objectors, but I am hopeful that this change of default can be added sooner rather than later. Many other distros use Gentoo's eudev as default quite successfully; it is well past time for our own distro to do the same (while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream).

The proposed one-line change to the virtual will affect new installations only, unless sys-fs/udev is manually uninstalled: then a world update would pull in sys-fs/eudev as the new default.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpine Linux just became the base for docker. This means OpenRC and eudev is going to be used in a lot more places now.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurly wrote:
while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream

Not sure what dead upstreams you are referring to. udev is very much alive and the de facto version where all the action happens. It resides in upstream systemd git tree, but is also individually buildable, like sys-fs/udev package does.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leio wrote:
kurly wrote:
while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream

Not sure what dead upstreams you are referring to. udev is very much alive and the de facto version where all the action happens. It resides in upstream systemd git tree, but is also individually buildable, like sys-fs/udev package does.
dead maybe a bit harsh, but it has had its last rites signed.

Plenty of Pottering and Sysd related roadmaps showing udev is going. When? who knows... part of it was riding on kdbus. Equally there was talk about completely replacing it with something else (I can't remember what it was called).

There is enough traffic to indicate udev's future is in question.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leio wrote:
kurly wrote:
while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream

Not sure what dead upstreams you are referring to. udev is very much alive and the de facto version where all the action happens. It resides in upstream systemd git tree, but is also individually buildable, like sys-fs/udev package does.

Leio ... yeah, I wonder where anyone might get that idea:

Lennart Poettering wrote:
Yes, udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we can drop that support entirely.

Lennart Poettering wrote:
Unless the systemd-haters prepare another kdbus userspace until then this will effectively also mean that we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call.

... and as far as "where all the action happens" goes, Lennart had also stated as far back as 2012 that "we will not polish that, or add new features to that or anything."

best ... khay
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Otherworlds
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi im a Linux noob only 6 month experience, but im pro init cause it's my understanding that init doesn't run everything at once, and it's difficult to make a dependency chart for systemd(mainly though cus init was there first and I can tell people don't want it to change, so I know the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach as said by a BSD admin). But this udev and eudev thing I haven't heard of yet till now, so if I may ask which one is better and why?
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Otherworlds wrote:
But this udev and eudev thing I haven't heard of yet till now, so if I may ask which one is better and why?

Otherworlds ... basically, udev was incorporated into systemd, subsequently some gentoo developers forked udev, naming the project eudev. Since that time various distributions have opted to use eudev as a replacement for udev's device management. The reasons for this are many, but primarly it is so as to get out from under the presure to adopt systemd, as udev-standalone was variously described as a "dead end", or those still using it provided a "wake-up call" in the form of "we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore".

Which is better? You decide ;) BTW, I don't use either, there are other methods of doing device management, such as mdev, or static-dev, so it's not an either/or proposition.

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Leio wrote:
kurly wrote:
while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream

Not sure what dead upstreams you are referring to. udev is very much alive and the de facto version where all the action happens. It resides in upstream systemd git tree, but is also individually buildable, like sys-fs/udev package does.
dead maybe a bit harsh, but it has had its last rites signed.

Plenty of Pottering and Sysd related roadmaps showing udev is going. When? who knows... part of it was riding on kdbus. Equally there was talk about completely replacing it with something else (I can't remember what it was called).

There is enough traffic to indicate udev's future is in question.



Wee found them...


https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-August/006066.html
Quote:
(Yes, udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case you
haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we can drop
that support entirely.)



https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-May/032147.html
Quote:
A new (currently still internal) API sd-device.h has been
added to libsystemd. This modernized API is supposed to
replace libudev eventually. In fact, already much of libudev
is now just a wrapper around sd-device.h.


Last rites have been served on udev.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurly wrote:
Bug 573922 has been established for the purpose of finally adding Gentoo to the list in the first post in this thread. There are still some political objectors, but I am hopeful that this change of default can be added sooner rather than later. Many other distros use Gentoo's eudev as default quite successfully; it is well past time for our own distro to do the same (while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream).

The proposed one-line change to the virtual will affect new installations only, unless sys-fs/udev is manually uninstalled: then a world update would pull in sys-fs/eudev as the new default.
looks like the bug was closed "WONTFIX"
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kurly
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
kurly wrote:
Bug 573922 has been established for the purpose of finally adding Gentoo to the list in the first post in this thread. There are still some political objectors, but I am hopeful that this change of default can be added sooner rather than later. Many other distros use Gentoo's eudev as default quite successfully; it is well past time for our own distro to do the same (while retaining the option for those who desire to continue to follow the dead upstream).

The proposed one-line change to the virtual will affect new installations only, unless sys-fs/udev is manually uninstalled: then a world update would pull in sys-fs/eudev as the new default.
looks like the bug was closed "WONTFIX"

WilliamH jumped the gun, unsurprisingly. It's since been reopened.
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