NX removal ... why the rush?

Message

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:35 am

Few days ago, emerge started displaying this message:

!!! The following installed packages are masked:
- net-misc/nxclient-3.5.0.7::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
/usr/portage/profiles/package.mask:
# Bernard Cafarelli <voyageur@gentoo.org> (26 Mar 2015)
# Dead upstreams, not working in some use cases,
# compatibility with current net-misc/nx not guaranteed,
# some bundle old binary Xorg code that may be vulnerable,
# modern alternative exist:
# net-misc/x2go{client,server} and proprietary NX 4 (bug #488334)
# These packages are now available in the NX overlay
# Removal in a month (bug #537774)

- net-misc/nxnode-3.5.0.9::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
- net-misc/nxserver-freeedition-3.5.0.11-r1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge
man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook.

I use nx client and server everyday and I have zero problems with them.

I tried to install x2go as recommended in the message. From their web site:

Code: Select all

Currently X2Go cannot connect to an openssh server compiled with the HPN patch. To make sure x2goserver works on your Gentoo server, you must recompile net-misc/openssh with HPN support disabled. Add the following line to /etc/portage/packages.use:
net-misc/openssh -hpn

The description for the hpn patch from http://www.psc.edu/index.php/hpn-ssh/640

Code: Select all

Q: What is HPN-SSH?
A: HPN-SSH is a patch set designed to remove a networking bottleneck in the base OpenSSH code. Removing this bottleneck can improve performance drastically.

Why the rush to remove an important package like this? Let us test the alternatives and see their drawbacks first.

Roman_Gruber · Post by **Roman_Gruber** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:58 pm

you can copy that ebuild to your local overlay and please do not forget to copy every needed file which is needed by portage.

well the devs states that it has issues. security issues and others and thats the reason why there is a 30 days warning before it gets removed so you can adapt.

Princess Nell · Post by **Princess Nell** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:38 pm

Bad decision.

Can't get x2go to work (Gentoo client - CentOS server). Unless disabling hpn is also required for the Gentoo client ...

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:48 am

I agree it is bad decision. Overlay should be for experimental and fringe packages.

Can we first find a viable replacement before rushing to remove a critical packages like nx.

I found this page about installation of x2go under gentoo:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-9 ... -x2go.html

But there is no gentoo wiki pages for x2go.

Post by Hu » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:54 am

Overlays are for packages not suitable for the main tree. A package which is dead upstream, has no replacement maintainer, and has known issues in regular usage is generally not suitable for the main tree, because if left in the main tree, users will keep finding it and expecting it to work. In some cases, if the issues are minor, a Gentoo developer or other power user could take over as a replacement maintainer. However, it looks like this is a binary-only package, which means only the original developers can fix issues. If they were to resume supporting it, the Gentoo developers might accept it back into the tree.

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:59 am

This is the point of view of the maintainer. The user wants a distribution which provides the packages he/she needs.

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:00 am

I found this thread: http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic. ... &t=1227519

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:06 am

I installed x2go but the session lasts for a second then terminates automatically without any obvious reason in the logs. Any ideas?

Princess Nell · Post by **Princess Nell** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:45 pm

My experiments so far suggest the x2go client is badly broken on Gentoo. Windows to my CentOS test server works very well and is quite snappy. Performance with the Gentoo client OTOH is quite bad, and the mouse buttons no longer work after the first button-down. It makes no difference whether hpn is compiled in or not - I thought I should try this even though it is technically needed for the Gentoo x2go server.

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:35 pm

I managed to get x2go to work at the end.

I used it for three hours yesterday night. It is slow. It has this annoying "cool" management window which has to be there even if you just want to open a session.

Post by Hu » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:33 am

As a user, I want my distribution to have quality packages. I prefer having broken packages removed so I do not stumble over them and expect them to work, rather than have them linger on because it might, with enough luck and research, be possible to get them working.

Princess Nell · Post by **Princess Nell** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:30 am

Excellent argument for the removal of x2go. It doesn't have the quality I expect.

figueroa · Post by **figueroa** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:59 pm

Princess Nell wrote:Bad decision.

Can't get x2go to work (Gentoo client - CentOS server). Unless disabling hpn is also required for the Gentoo client ...

It's working fine now with openssh hpn enabled on both client and server.

figueroa · Post by **figueroa** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:01 pm

yzg wrote:I installed x2go but the session lasts for a second then terminates automatically without any obvious reason in the logs. Any ideas?

On the server, you must remove or rename the file /etc/x2go/Xsessions but I don't know why. Working fine on my LAN all day today.

Roman_Gruber · Post by **Roman_Gruber** » Sun May 03, 2015 11:14 am

yzg wrote:This is the point of view of the maintainer. The user wants a distribution which provides the packages he/she needs.

I prefer a stable secure distri in the first place.

And overlays are for such packages which are not ready for the tree or do not meet the requirements.

I ditched a lot of good software in the past and more good software will follow this the flow of time...

No one ever talks about gnome 2 anymore, though it was kinda useful and mature at the end.

dmpogo · Post by **dmpogo** » Sun May 03, 2015 5:08 pm

tw04l124 wrote:
yzg wrote:This is the point of view of the maintainer. The user wants a distribution which provides the packages he/she needs.
I prefer a stable secure distri in the first place.

And overlays are for such packages which are not ready for the tree or do not meet the requirements.

I ditched a lot of good software in the past and more good software will follow this the flow of time...

No one ever talks about gnome 2 anymore, though it was kinda useful and mature at the end.

Most stable and secure setup is to switch off your computer

I have a suspicion you do not use your computer for work (as in 'non-computer related work'). NX is/was a standard in many research groups and it was working just fine, and it is not much fun to retrain hetergeneous mix of colleagues and students to use new system, which even was not that stable last time I tried it (which was some time ago, admittingly)

dmpogo · Post by **dmpogo** » Sun May 03, 2015 5:17 pm

Hu wrote:Overlays are for packages not suitable for the main tree. A package which is dead upstream, has no replacement maintainer, and has known issues in regular usage is generally not suitable for the main tree, because if left in the main tree, users will keep finding it and expecting it to work. In some cases, if the issues are minor, a Gentoo developer or other power user could take over as a replacement maintainer. However, it looks like this is a binary-only package, which means only the original developers can fix issues. If they were to resume supporting it, the Gentoo developers might accept it back into the tree.

When I came to Gentoo in 2004, its attractive feature was that almost every software I could think of the top of my head was in the tree and easily findable. At different levels of stability, sure. Actuallly, this was one of the 'selling' points of the distro. I remember proudly showing that to my Fedora friends

I actually find prolifiration of overlays to be detrimental, to an extend. The idea that you should hide software from the user so that he does not stumble upon it is plain wrong, IMHO. That's what different stability flags are for.

Princess Nell · Post by **Princess Nell** » Wed May 06, 2015 11:37 pm

Found a solution to my problem anyway - disable sound support. Strange as it seems ...

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Thu May 07, 2015 2:30 am

When I came to Gentoo in 2004, its attractive feature was that almost every software I could think of the top of my head was in the tree and easily findable. At different levels of stability, sure. Actuallly, this was one of the 'selling' points of the distro. I remember proudly showing that to my Fedora friends I actually find prolifiration of overlays to be detrimental, to an extend. The idea that you should hide software from the user so that he does not stumble upon it is plain wrong, IMHO. That's what different stability flags are for.

Total agreement here.

yzg · Post by **yzg** » Thu May 07, 2015 2:41 am

As a user, I want my distribution to have quality packages. I prefer having broken packages removed so I do not stumble over them and expect them to work, rather than have them linger on because it might, with enough luck and research, be possible to get them working.

This is not the open source way. If a package is broken, make a patch and share it. There is nothing called quality packages. They are work in progress.

mv · Post by mv » Thu May 07, 2015 6:09 am

dmpogo wrote:The idea that you should hide software from the user so that he does not stumble upon it is plain wrong, IMHO. That's what different stability flags are for.

++

If there are security issues in a binary (hence unfixable package), you could mask the package and tell the user why you mask it.
Then the user gets the warning and can decide whether he wants to take the risk or not.
There is no objective reason for removing the package from the tree.
If I would have a possibility, I would remove the tree-cleaners from gentoo, since their job is not needed and only counterproductive.

Once more: Masking ++, removal -- --

js08 · Post by **js08** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:31 pm

yzg wrote:I installed x2go but the session lasts for a second then terminates automatically without any obvious reason in the logs. Any ideas?

same for me - also with a removed /etc/x2go/Xsessions file (always with the very obvious reason "Error: blabla in stage 7")

If I select Terminal instead of KDE, ICEWM, etc. I get only the bluescreen of x2go-death incl. 100% processor usage.

Are there successful x2go users having dropbear as ssh server?

Post by Hu » Mon May 11, 2015 1:42 am

yzg wrote:This is not the open source way. If a package is broken, make a patch and share it.

I did. The maintainers ignored it. Other times I found that someone else already had posted a patch months ago, and it was still not included. After a while, it gets rather irritating to find that, for any new package, I need to research whether it is maintained, whether there are published patches that I need to layer on by hand, and whether the published patches solve more problems than they cause.

Joseph_sys · Post by **Joseph_sys** » Mon May 11, 2015 3:56 am

tw04l124 wrote:you can copy that ebuild to your local overlay and please do not forget to copy every needed file which is needed by portage.

well the devs states that it has issues. security issues and others and thats the reason why there is a 30 days warning before it gets removed so you can adapt.

Can someone refresh my memory how to copy all needed files to local portage?
I'm using:
net-misc/nxserver-freenx-0.7.3_p104-r7
net-misc/nx-3.5.0.20
net-misc/nxclient-3.5.0.7

Post by **Chiitoo** » Wed May 13, 2015 10:57 am

Joseph_sys wrote:Can someone refresh my memory how to copy all needed files to local portage?
I'm using:
net-misc/nxserver-freenx-0.7.3_p104-r7
net-misc/nx-3.5.0.20
net-misc/nxclient-3.5.0.7

Everything related under /usr/portage/net-misc/nx for example. Of course you'd only need the ebuild version you want to keep, and if the files directory contains nothing related to that version, you'd not need that at all.

Basically, one can simply copy the directory over (I prefer rsync, but cp -a will probably do nicely as well), then simply follow the local overlay instructions.

NX removal ... why the rush?

NX removal ... why the rush?

><)))°€