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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Feb 2015 link http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/

If that link doesn't give you nightmares I don't know what will
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
From the Feb 2015 link http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/


The real WTF is LP there standing and talking with no slides. Sounds like a project with no officially set goals and he just appeared there to talk about "ideas" they had. Or is it some new level of arrogance along the lines of "Y'all don't need docs nor slides, just listen to what we have to say, it's not like you can do anything about it"...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I saw that post by Mattias Geniar, and the comments on it, some of which raise further concerns in my mind regarding the future of Linux. Which reminds me of another recent post I read: Has modern Linux lost its way? (Some thoughts on jessie). He's not only talking about systemd, but I share his concerns. I too worry what is happening to Linux.
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depontius
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FOSS Force had some sort of article about newbies on Linux. While it was nowhere explicit, I interpreted there to be "systemd" in there as the way to push Linux out to the masses. So my comment was that I have nothing against new users, and I've supported people on Linux who were never going to really learn it, and that's OK. Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Fitzcarraldo

I had to laugh at the close of that link though.
Quote:
Then as I was writing this, of course, my laptop started insisting that it needed the root password to suspend when I close the lid. And it’s running systemd. There’s another quagmire…
:lol:
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut.


That's the problem though, to continue with that analogy, some little nothing has convinced most of the dealers (distros) that they need their software or the vehicle won't run properly. *sigh*
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut.

depontius ... that metaphor already bit the dust ... cars *are* computers ... with the hood firmly weld shut.

best ... khay
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but I have a cutting torch! ;) (No kidding: I do. Both literal and metaphorical.)

- John
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bstaletic
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I found funny are systemctl-(cat|edit). Will anyone use those instead of "cat" and "$EDITOR"???
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

next LP is probably say cat and $EDITOR is not secure, and you have to have permission to use those commands
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:

I had to laugh at the close of that link though.
Quote:
Then as I was writing this, of course, my laptop started insisting that it needed the root password to suspend when I close the lid. And it’s running systemd. There’s another quagmire…
:lol:


the update
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link :lol:
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mrsteven
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the link above wrote:
Singh makes the valid point that this stuff is in such a state of flux that even if a person is one of the few dozen in the world that understand what goes into a session today, the knowledge will be outdated in 6 months. (Hal, anyone?)


Speaking of HAL, why again was it dumped? Ah, I see:

Quote:
  • It's a huge kitchen sink that hasn't seen any real rewrites except for the 0.4->0.5 transition very early on. [...]
  • Because it does a lot, no single developer has a 100% overview of the code base [...]
  • does a lot of things but none of them particular well - "Jack of all trades, Master of none" [...]
  • Huge overlap with underlying components [...]


While HAL had other problems apart from the items quoted here, I can't remember that it had a binary logger or a bootloader included. :roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Plasma wants to support -shims Reply with quote

David Edmundson replied in in blog, that he wants to keep Plasma working with -shims: http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/systemd-and-plasma#comment-1862738836

Quote:

Realistically we're talking about the snapshot of the login1/timedate1 specs as of now. I follow what happens in that BSD shim. We tend to have a good relationship with most packagers (certainly I do with one BSD guy) if he tells us something is broken, we'll fix it in the final release.

We had a discussion at the Plasma sprint now, we'll be dropping legacy support in 5.5; over 6 months from now. We're trying hard to not screw any hard working distros over.

I can't promise we won't break it accidentally, we do it with the build system. I can say we won't do it deliberately; and certainly this should be done in a way that won't affect users.

However, if a distro doesn't make any effort then they will get left behind with an old Plasma. I don't want to let any one group ruin the experience of anyone else.

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depontius
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh No! Not even bsd is safe...

https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systembsd.git;a=summary
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a good link to read before having a baby. :lol:

Everything you need to fully understand the systemd problem.
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mrsteven
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder when systemd will merge Superfish, for ads and improved insecurity. :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then, good thing systemd just got fsck capabilities... okay, not really but close enough :)

http://anzwix.com/a/systemd/FsckdDaemonForInterfsckdCommunication
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrueXYZ wrote:
Well then, good thing systemd just got fsck capabilities... okay, not really but close enough :)

http://anzwix.com/a/systemd/FsckdDaemonForInterfsckdCommunication

Jeezus God, I thought you were joking (and that was a joke blogpost) but no, not according to the link..

Now I know the whole thing is fsckd.. ;-)
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gwr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why in the $%$^ would I want a daemon for fsck?

Edit: Wait, I know. It's so I can not be able to run fsck on a problem drive because fsckd doesn't work on a problem drive.

GrueXYZ wrote:
Well then, good thing systemd just got fsck capabilities... okay, not really but close enough :)

http://anzwix.com/a/systemd/FsckdDaemonForInterfsckdCommunication
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like windows (done badly) with each addition. :roll:
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depontius
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
windows (done badly)

Isn't that redundant?

Cheers...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With systemd-219, it is no longer possible to mount something without systemd generating internally some mount unit:
Attempts to use device mapper or mount directly or through tools using them (except through the systemd-assimilated software), are apparently intentionally boycotted: systemd must be the only tool used for all this.

Effects are e.g,: mount works (also a kernel message is reported), but it has no visible effect in the system, probably due to some cgroups hackery.

Due to this insanity, squashmount now officially drops support for systemd (although one of its aims was to be init-system independent - but this only includes sane init systems).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
With systemd-219, it is no longer possible to mount something without systemd generating internally some mount unit:
Attempts to use device mapper or mount directly or through tools using them (except through the systemd-assimilated software), are apparently intentionally boycotted: systemd must be the only tool used for all this.

It's the Master Control-Program! ;-)

I still can't get past "fsckd daemon for inter-fsckd communication"; now we're all fscked ;)
Quote:
Effects are e.g,: mount works (also a kernel message is reported), but it has no visible effect in the system, probably due to some cgroups hackery.

Due to this insanity, squashmount now officially drops support for systemd (although one of its aims was to be init-system independent - but this only includes sane init systems).

Wow, if they had any sense that would be a wake-up call. Shame they have no clue who to listen to (so listen to the pushiest w&nker instead.)
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229566
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think at this point it's safe to say that systemd is posed to become an entire operating system base and will therefore consume a lot more functions. I used to joke about it but it's now blatantly obvious that GNU/Linux is in fact becoming systemd/Linux.

People joked that it's next going to turn bash (or whichever shell) into shelld, but... think about it. "Smart", kdbus-based tab completion data? Terminal multiplexing? Who wouldn't want that! Where do I sign up! </sarcasm>

However, after having accepted the fact that there's a whole friggin HTTPd server in journald for the purposes of remotely dispatching log entries via JSON (!!!!!), I've grown beyond the point where anything coming into systemd next would surprise me.
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