Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
The simplicity of the Middle East conflict
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Do ten pushups.
That's not a punishment. I can do that in my sleep.

pjp wrote:
Historically speaking, it wasn't their land. So how long before Israel's ownership becomes the defacto of being? By some measures, 19 years is a generation, so it has been almost 3.5 generations since it was created. And Palestinians have demonstrated time and again that they aren't interested in peace. And that ignores other regional genocidal evils.


That's a good question. One thing to keep in mind there are likely still palestinians alive today who were there before Israel was created. So, it wasn't that long ago. But yes, in two hundred years, moving israel would be a tragedy. That's obviously what they are hoping for.

Like the OP's link, there is a conflation of arab and palestinian here. I have no doubt that the other arab states don't give a shit about the palestinians. The arab states have a handy scapegoat in which to whip up public hate (Israel). And keep in mind those societies long for blow holes; they can't just protest and petition their govts over their long list of grievances. Those people are rightly pissed and the govt allows the to scream about a few select things, mostly israel. It's perfect.
_________________
wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4367
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Naib wrote:
On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
What do you mean, germany won anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnINw6kqoE
re-read what I wrote...
Imagine if the Ottoman empire still existed and allied with germany...
_________________
the table is made from wood. forget what you learnt, the table is made from carbon. forget what you learnt, the table is made from protons. forget what you learnt, the table is made from quarks. forget what you learnt, the table is good for shagging on
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Naib wrote:
On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
What do you mean, germany won anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnINw6kqoE
re-read what I wrote...
Imagine if the Ottoman empire still existed and allied with germany...
That would suck rotten ass.
That being said, watch this one, it is quite amusing (at least on first glance):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LR4N-rsCXc
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
We need a balance of perspective here. Where are Jew-hating energyman76b, cokehabit, and that insane Cuban who claims to be from Switzerland?
Here. You forgot the fact that I'm the jew hating cokehabit with a jewish girlfriend. :roll: I think she's pretending to be jewish because she gave me money the other day :lol:

The video was rubbish because it started off with a faulty premise - namely that the arab world had to accept their country being split into two.

Jews and Arabs have got on perfectly well for the 1600 years until this, It was Christians and arabs who had the problem
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
Jews and Arabs have got on perfectly well for the 1600 years until this, It was Christians and arabs who had the problem


8O

So building a huge mosque on top of the Jews most sacred site was just out of kindness?
_________________
There is no god but Bach, Beethoven is the messenger of Bach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
Jews and Arabs have got on perfectly well for the 1600 years until this, It was Christians and arabs who had the problem


8O

So building a huge mosque on top of the Jews most sacred site was just out of kindness?
there isn't a postage stamp sized piece of grass that doesn't mean something to someone out there. I'm sure Krishna has his eye on the wailing wall

I say you treat them like two two year olds fighting over a toy: if you can't both play nicely with it then neither of you can play with it
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Naib wrote:
On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
What do you mean, germany won anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnINw6kqoE

At least the Ottoman Empire was modern-thinking and essentially rational. The Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, and various other Salafist / Jihadi, Islamist movements want to re-create that hegemony, but with a fundamentalist philosophy. It would be bad enough to have one power center with a monopoly on energy, but it would be much worse if they were moonbat insane and other-world oriented.

Also, don't act like Britain defeated the Ottoman Empire by itself. The Commonwealth mostly got its ass kicked, and the French had a big role in it as well (and didn't fuck up the disposition of the portions they occupied either).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The simplicity of the Middle East conflict Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Naib wrote:
On the topic of the Ottoman empire... imagine if it wasn't broken up. All that oil in one empires control... WW2 would have been decided earlier depending on the side that allied with - imagine if it was Germany? Hindsight and coulda woulda shoulda is lovely
What do you mean, germany won anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytnINw6kqoE

At least the Ottoman Empire was modern-thinking and essentially rational. The Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, and various other Salafist / Jihadi, Islamist movements want to re-create that hegemony, but with a fundamentalist philosophy. It would be bad enough to have one power center with a monopoly on energy, but it would be much worse if they were moonbat insane and other-world oriented.

Also, don't act like Britain defeated the Ottoman Empire by itself. The Commonwealth mostly got its ass kicked, and the French had a big role in it as well (and didn't fuck up the disposition of the portions they occupied either).

It's not really about what was, but how it should be and what different mentalities do so we can't achieve that. And no, Ottoman Empire was not rational, it was sadistic. That said, british mentality doesn't work either. Fight fire with fire and all that. Pissing off half of the globe because the germanic and celtic tribes have issues. The games "powers" play with others lives, you think we who experienced it really care? One third of males from my high school class are dead, they never done anything to anyone. So the ideologies, religions, patriotism, anybody who uses that to justify whatever can shove it up their asses.
Yeah because they can, but they can't keep their halo's then.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.
Yeah I agree on that.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zixnub
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Brasschaat, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.


Israelis nor the Palestinians will listen to anybody. I doubt a strongly worded letter will change that.
_________________
https://github.com/Zubnix/wayland-java-bindings
https://github.com/Zubnix/westmalle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.


Israelis nor the Palestinians will listen to anybody. I doubt a strongly worded letter will change that.

Well, then a carefully crafted virus might be what the doctor ordered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll fix it all :)
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
The video was rubbish because it started off with a faulty premise - namely that the arab world had to accept their country being split into two.

Jews and Arabs have got on perfectly well for the 1600 years until this, It was Christians and arabs who had the problem


I'm not sure how you figure it was "their country". It was part of the Ottoman Empire, then it was under British control...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine wrote:
During the First World War an Arab uprising and British campaign led by General Edmund Allenby, the British Empire's commander of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force, drove the Turks out of the Levant, a part of which was the Sinai and Palestine Campaign.[2] The United Kingdom had agreed in the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence that it would honor Arab independence if they revolted against the Ottomans. The two sides had different interpretations of this agreement. In the event, the UK and France divided up the area under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, an act of betrayal in the opinion of the Arabs. Further confusing the issue was the Balfour Declaration promising support for a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. After the war ended, a military administration, named Occupied Enemy Territory Administration, was established in the captured territory of the former Ottoman Syria. The British sought legitimacy for their continued control of the region and this was achieved by obtaining a mandate from the League of Nations in June 1922. The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, "until such time as they are able to stand alone."[3] The civil Mandate administration was formalized with the League of Nations' consent in 1923 under the British Mandate for Palestine, which covered two administrative areas. The land west of the Jordan River, known as Palestine, was under direct British administration until 1948, while the land east of the Jordan was a semi-autonomous region known as Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from the Hijaz, and gained independence in 1946.[4]


Then in the face of failure, armed conflicts with a Jewish insurgency, ever-increasing animosity from the Arabs, and a need to recover from the second world war, the British pull this:

Quote:
The British had notified the U.N. of their intent to terminate the mandate not later than 1 August 1948,[53][54] However, early in 1948, the United Kingdom announced its firm intention to end its mandate in Palestine on 14 May. In response, President Harry S. Truman made a statement on 25 March proposing UN trusteeship rather than partition, stating that "unfortunately, it has become clear that the partition plan cannot be carried out at this time by peaceful means... unless emergency action is taken, there will be no public authority in Palestine on that date capable of preserving law and order. Violence and bloodshed will descend upon the Holy Land. Large-scale fighting among the people of that country will be the inevitable result."[55]


And the end result of British mismanagement of the mandate and a complete failure of achieving the formal objectives before pulling out of the agreement ends with beginning of the modern era of this ongoing conflict:

Quote:
The Jewish Leadership, led by future Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, declared the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,[56] on the afternoon of Friday, 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708 in the Hebrew calendar), to come into force at midnight of that day.[57][58][59] On the same day, the Provisional Government of Israel asked the US Government for recognition, on the frontiers specified in the UN Plan for Partition.[60] The United States immediately replied, recognizing the provisional government as the de facto authority.[61] Israel was also quickly recognised by the Soviet Union[citation needed] and many other countries,[citation needed] but not by the surrounding Arab states. At the same time that the state of Israel was being declared Jewish paramilitary forces took up occupation of the evacuated British military installations in the country. Radical Jewish forces, from whose actions the Haganah distanced themselves, began to clear Palestinian Arab settlements in what was now declared Israel.


I don't agree with either of your stated assessments. They don't match up with documented historical facts.
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
The video was rubbish because it started off with a faulty premise - namely that the arab world had to accept their country being split into two.

Jews and Arabs have got on perfectly well for the 1600 years until this, It was Christians and arabs who had the problem
I'm not sure how you figure it was "their country". It was part of the Ottoman Empire, then it was under British control...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine wrote:

Yeah, that's normally what happens when you research the wrong thing :roll:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine wrote:
Palestine was conquered by the Islamic Empire, beginning in 634 CE. In 636 CE, the Battle of Yarmouk during the Muslim conquest of Syria marked the new Muslim hegemony over the region, which was classified as Bilâd al-Shâm (Greater Syria)

...

In 1830, on the eve of Muhammad Ali's invasion, the Ottoman Porte transferred control of the sanjaks of Jerusalem and Nablus to Abdullah Pasha, the governor of Acre. According to Silverburg, in regional and cultural terms this move was important for creating an Arab Palestine detached from Syria (bilad al-Shams). According to Pappe, it was an attempt to reinforce the Syrian front in face of Muhammad Ali's invasion. Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration
I'd say after 1200 years it becomes theirs
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4367
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.
the plan was after it was ratified by the founding members of the UN that they would have been overrun but someone had to go and provide humanitary aid in the form of guns and tanks. That 3day war would have been a 3hour war and we wouldn't be in the mess we are today

Anyone can create, its takes an overseer to mold. You don't blame a womb for a father raising a murderer
_________________
the table is made from wood. forget what you learnt, the table is made from carbon. forget what you learnt, the table is made from protons. forget what you learnt, the table is made from quarks. forget what you learnt, the table is good for shagging on
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
My point in mentioning the British is merely to suggest that they should feel obligated to play a more central role in resolving the conflict and mitigating the unnecessary suffering it creates.
the plan was after it was ratified by the founding members of the UN that they would have been overrun but someone had to go and provide humanitary aid in the form of guns and tanks. That 3day war would have been a 3hour war and we wouldn't be in the mess we are today

Anyone can create, its takes an overseer to mold. You don't blame a womb for a father raising a murderer

Yes but it is arrogance, hubris and racism on the part of western world to assume that they know better and that their logic should count. It's the same travesty as demanding shariah laws in UK. I mean yeah, I'm all for reforming the mindset of islamic world, so that women are emancipated and free, and that kids don't have their genitalia mutilated, and that there are more lightweight, more constructive values in society instead of the fatalistic "it's Gods will", but the change has to come from within.
It doesn't come from within because there are those in islamic world that profit from the subjection of the citizenry, like Saud family and so on, so they are in the way of truly making islamic world democratic.
But guess what the west is doing? It is bombing the citizenry and collaborating with the oppressors, so clearly its double morale and bullshit when it comes to middle east politics. Money Money Money.
In that light, it is not hard to see why a helpless average habibi would feel betrayed by both so-called democratic west (liars) and their own "leaders" (slavers). Young people get confused, they have no way out, and when confused, distressed and broken enough, in comes the silver-tounged imam and preaches 72 virgins and what not.
It's all bullshit tbh. And we who are not touched by it like to pretend that we know better and it's easy to fix. Tell that to kids in Gaza. Or don't act surprised when something goes "boom".

Westerners cannot fix middle east, but they can clean out the trash they have at home.
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCokey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine wrote:
Palestine was conquered by the Islamic Empire, beginning in 634 CE. In 636 CE, the Battle of Yarmouk during the Muslim conquest of Syria marked the new Muslim hegemony over the region, which was classified as Bilâd al-Shâm (Greater Syria)

...

In 1830, on the eve of Muhammad Ali's invasion, the Ottoman Porte transferred control of the sanjaks of Jerusalem and Nablus to Abdullah Pasha, the governor of Acre. According to Silverburg, in regional and cultural terms this move was important for creating an Arab Palestine detached from Syria (bilad al-Shams). According to Pappe, it was an attempt to reinforce the Syrian front in face of Muhammad Ali's invasion. Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration
I'd say after 1200 years it becomes theirs


:lol: I love how you cut out everything that happened between 636 and 1830 to support your bullshit argument of 1200 years where the region was constantly being lost in to one conquest or another. Even when it was controlled by Arabs in that time period, one tribe or another was always fighting to take over the area from another. And I hate to break it to you boyo, but how long an ethnic group has lived in an area means nothing in the creation of political borders. It never has. You'd think someone living in a country that is so proud of its Empirical history would know this.

So since England has been meddling with the area for almost a thousand years in one way or another starting with the crusades and ending with the creation of the modern conflict, do they get some special privilege regarding the land there as well?
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTduy7Qkvk8
_________________
“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4367
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine wrote:
Palestine was conquered by the Islamic Empire, beginning in 634 CE. In 636 CE, the Battle of Yarmouk during the Muslim conquest of Syria marked the new Muslim hegemony over the region, which was classified as Bilâd al-Shâm (Greater Syria)

...

In 1830, on the eve of Muhammad Ali's invasion, the Ottoman Porte transferred control of the sanjaks of Jerusalem and Nablus to Abdullah Pasha, the governor of Acre. According to Silverburg, in regional and cultural terms this move was important for creating an Arab Palestine detached from Syria (bilad al-Shams). According to Pappe, it was an attempt to reinforce the Syrian front in face of Muhammad Ali's invasion. Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration
I'd say after 1200 years it becomes theirs


:lol: I love how you cut out everything that happened between 636 and 1830 to support your bullshit argument of 1200 years where the region was constantly being lost in to one conquest or another. Even when it was controlled by Arabs in that time period, one tribe or another was always fighting to take over the area from another. And I hate to break it to you boyo, but how long an ethnic group has lived in an area means nothing in the creation of political borders. It never has. You'd think someone living in a country that is so proud of its Empirical history would know this.

So since England has been meddling with the area for almost a thousand years in one way or another starting with the crusades and ending with the creation of the modern conflict, do they get some special privilege regarding the land there as well?


The crusades was a German/France/Italian endeavour to keep their wandering barbarians under control under the guise of "its god's will" following the logic its better they rape and pillage elsewhere than at home. Britain just sent their barbarians as well... they just happened to be their knights.
Britain just kept big song and dance records of it and that is why the crusades has been labelled an English endeavour in popular culture as oppose to an appeasement exercise by the Vatican
_________________
the table is made from wood. forget what you learnt, the table is made from carbon. forget what you learnt, the table is made from protons. forget what you learnt, the table is made from quarks. forget what you learnt, the table is good for shagging on
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
Butts McCokey wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine wrote:
Palestine was conquered by the Islamic Empire, beginning in 634 CE. In 636 CE, the Battle of Yarmouk during the Muslim conquest of Syria marked the new Muslim hegemony over the region, which was classified as Bilâd al-Shâm (Greater Syria)

...

In 1830, on the eve of Muhammad Ali's invasion, the Ottoman Porte transferred control of the sanjaks of Jerusalem and Nablus to Abdullah Pasha, the governor of Acre. According to Silverburg, in regional and cultural terms this move was important for creating an Arab Palestine detached from Syria (bilad al-Shams). According to Pappe, it was an attempt to reinforce the Syrian front in face of Muhammad Ali's invasion. Two years later, in 1832, Palestine was conquered by Muhammad Ali's Egypt, but in 1840, Britain intervened and returned control of the Levant to the Ottomans in return for further capitulations. The end of the 19th century saw the beginning of Zionist immigration
I'd say after 1200 years it becomes theirs


:lol: I love how you cut out everything that happened between 636 and 1830 to support your bullshit argument of 1200 years where the region was constantly being lost in to one conquest or another. Even when it was controlled by Arabs in that time period, one tribe or another was always fighting to take over the area from another. And I hate to break it to you boyo, but how long an ethnic group has lived in an area means nothing in the creation of political borders. It never has. You'd think someone living in a country that is so proud of its Empirical history would know this.

So since England has been meddling with the area for almost a thousand years in one way or another starting with the crusades and ending with the creation of the modern conflict, do they get some special privilege regarding the land there as well?
meh, even inserting the Crusades and others, it hasn't really been out of their hands for that little under that stated.

Love the awesome way you come back with such a precise argument btw. And those insults, you must feel like you've really made your point... :roll:
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1571
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The English participated in the Crusades just like everybody else. They also exploited, persecuted and murdered Jews, hunted "witches", tortured heretics, marched children off to war against the Infidel, etc. And, that was all before they really turned into assholes and went full-hardon colonial and imperialist. That's when the real atrocities started (like being the only state ever to surpass Rome as a slave nation).

Also, Butts McCokey needs to read more books. Since that is unlikely, I suggest this podcast:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ancient-world/id517589332
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ratmonkey
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
The crusades was a German/France/Italian endeavour to keep their wandering barbarians under control under the guise of "its god's will" following the logic its better they rape and pillage elsewhere than at home. Britain just sent their barbarians as well... they just happened to be their knights.
Britain just kept big song and dance records of it and that is why the crusades has been labelled an English endeavour in popular culture as oppose to an appeasement exercise by the Vatican


Yeah, but if I mentioned everyone else's involvement in the crusades, it would be harder to get Butts McCokey whipped up into a nationalistic fervor, which is really the only reason I threw that last bit in anyway. :wink:

I also recognize that the issue is more complex than the over-simplified 'it's the British's fault!' angle I'm playing up. I just gets on my nerves how everyone has amnesia about the history of the region prior to 1948. The part that really mystifies me is that this collective ignorance seems to extend as much to the pro-Israel crowd as it does the No-Israel bunch.
_________________
dmitchell wrote:
Note: I am also a tax feeder
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum