| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: Bid to Use Common Anesthetic for Executions |
 |
|
Threatens U.S. Patients
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=bid-to-use-common-anesthetic-for-executions-threatens-us-patients
| Quote: | Allen Nicklasson has had a temporary reprieve. Scheduled to be executed by lethal injection in Missouri on 23 October, the convicted killer was given a stay of execution by the state’s governor, Jay Nixon, on 11 October — but not because his guilt was in doubt. Nicklasson will live a while longer because one of the drugs that was supposed to be used in his execution — a widely used anesthetic called propofol — is at the center of an international controversy that threatens millions of US patients, and affects the way that US states execute inmates.
Shortages of anesthetic drugs usually used in lethal injection, the most common method of execution, are forcing states to find alternative sedatives. Propofol, used up to 50 million times a year in US surgical procedures, has never been used in an execution. If the execution had gone ahead, US hospitals could have lost access to the drug because 90% of the US supply is made and exported by a German company subject to European Union (EU) regulations that restrict the export of medicines and devices that could be used for capital punishment or torture. Fearing a ban on propofol sales to the United States, in 2012 the drug’s manufacturer, Fresenius Kabi in Bad Homburg, ordered its US distributors not to provide the drug to prisons. |
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rope happens to be patent free.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 131
Location: India
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I read that as: "Bid to Use Common Aesthetic for Executions" and thought "hm... a new programming language?"
_________________
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated, until defeat has been accepted as a reality." -- Bruce Lee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| John-Boy wrote: | | Rope happens to be patent free. |
patients not patents  but yes nothing like a good length of rope
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17502
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | Rope happens to be patent free. |
patients not patents ;) but yes nothing like a good length of rope |
I believe he was pointing out that use of Propofol could be blocked due to patents, whereas use rope could not be similarly blocked.
All the government needs to do is set up some shell companies and put execution methods under national security policy.
I'm opposed to the death penalty due to human fallibility, corruption and inexcusable flaws in the legal system, but I'm even more opposed to foreign influence over US law.
_________________
It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2045
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and I am opposed to US influence.
It is an EU ruling and everybody has to follow it. Why should there be an exception made for the US?
_________________
Study finds stunning lack of racial, gender, and economic diversity among middle-class white males
I identify as a dirty penismensch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pjp wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | Rope happens to be patent free. |
patients not patents but yes nothing like a good length of rope |
I believe he was pointing out that use of Propofol could be blocked due to patents, whereas use rope could not be similarly blocked.
All the government needs to do is set up some shell companies and put execution methods under national security policy.
I'm opposed to the death penalty due to human fallibility, corruption and inexcusable flaws in the legal system, but I'm even more opposed to foreign influence over US law. |
Its potentially going to be blocked due to the same reason the other chem's were blocked - EU & controlled export on usage.
This is a std anesthetic for medical use across US and EU & states are forced to source chems that are used only for medical usage BUT this will then cause such chemicals to be flagged in the EU for export control and thus exports would get blocked, putting general americans at risk
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17502
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Right. I'm not sure why you restated that.
That said, if it is that critical and common, then patents on it should be treated as respectfully as "common" technology patents when governments decide a company is unfairly blocking use of the technology.
_________________
It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Because there isn't an issue with patents here, just supply.
Propofol is the generic name and is cleared for use in the USA
The drug was made by UK (creator), Israel. In small volumes by Italy BUT the bulk is by Germany. How is this a patent issue
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Last edited by Naib on Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:41 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | Rope happens to be patent free. |
patients not patents but yes nothing like a good length of rope |
Good man, I was wondering if you'd spot my deliberate typo.
(JB walks away whistling)
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2045
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pjp wrote: | Right. I'm not sure why you restated that.
That said, if it is that critical and common, then patents on it should be treated as respectfully as "common" technology patents when governments decide a company is unfairly blocking use of the technology. |
indeed, that is why american companies should have taken their patents on HIV medication away, so African nations can make medication for cheap*.
They are unfairly blocking use of the companies, condemning people to untimely death.
*you should remember a certain debacle when South Africa asked to make their own HIV medication and sell it cheaply, but that was blocked - and Bush stated that this was against the free market.
The same Bush that threatened to take away the patent of a certain German company making anthrax vaccine/medication.
_________________
Study finds stunning lack of racial, gender, and economic diversity among middle-class white males
I identify as a dirty penismensch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1606
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The same Bush who gave billions of dollars in HIV medication and medical aid to African states. 
| energyman76b wrote: | and I am opposed to US influence.
It is an EU ruling and everybody has to follow it. Why should there be an exception made for the US? |
Who said anything about an exception?
I'm not sure about hanging; I think it's become a lost art. A well-built guillotine would be hard to fuck up, though, and quite humane except for whoever has to hose down the room afterward.
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | The same Bush who gave billions of dollars in HIV medication and medical aid to African states.
| energyman76b wrote: | and I am opposed to US influence.
It is an EU ruling and everybody has to follow it. Why should there be an exception made for the US? |
Who said anything about an exception? |
| Quote: | Yes, the $15 billion President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) he began in office achieved some dazzling results – ten times more Africans are thought to be on anti-retrovirals now, than when the programme began, and the fund helped set an incredibly high bench mark for giving. However, Bush’s HIV & AIDS work is far from being the untarnished legacy of his presidency, as he seems to believe.
Beyond PEPFAR, Bush was guilty of shoehorning a division between HIV prevention and reproductive health. Whilst in power, he re-introduced the global gag rule (since rescinded by Obama), which cut US funding to international family planning organisations if they mentioned abortion as a choice. As experts will tell you, holistic family planning services are at the heart of HIV prevention and treatment. Across Africa, organisations who would not condone the global gag rule, lost funding, closed rural outreach centres, cut their condom distribution, and scaled back HIV prevention, testing and treatment work.
|
http://www.plan-uk.org/news/blogs/guest-bloggers/Condemning-condoms-George-Bush/
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1606
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doesn't change the fact that he gave it to them (how many billions of dollars worth of HIV medicine has your country given away), or that nobody is asking for any "exception".
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aidanjt
Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Rep. of Ireland
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Medicine hundreds of thousands wouldn't ever have needed to begin with if there wasn't a systematic effort by fundies and catholics to keep them ignorant and resourceless when it comes to preventative sexual health.
_________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1606
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| aidanjt wrote: | | Medicine hundreds of thousands wouldn't ever have needed to begin with if there wasn't a systematic effort by fundies and catholics to keep them ignorant and resourceless when it comes to preventative sexual health. |
Yeah, or if the tertiary glaciation hadn't forced hominids to learn tool usage and language.
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17502
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | Because there isn't an issue with patents here, just supply.
Propofol is the generic name and is cleared for use in the USA
The drug was made by UK (creator), Israel. In small volumes by Italy BUT the bulk is by Germany. How is this a patent issue |
Oh, OK, doesn't really seem like a problem then. I misunderstood and thought there was some reason (patents) we couldn't just make our own.
_________________
It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17502
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| energyman76b wrote: | | american companies |
If other countries are going to screw us, we screw them too.
_________________
It is what it is out there. So whatever it is, it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1606
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Germans must be stocking up on it. Somebody should check.
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flysideways
Apprentice
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aidanjt wrote: | | Medicine hundreds of thousands wouldn't ever have needed to begin with if there wasn't a systematic effort by fundies and catholics to keep them ignorant and resourceless when it comes to preventative sexual health. |
I suspect the aversion to condom use is a bit more contributory here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 131
Location: India
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | | The Germans must be stocking up on it. Somebody should check. |
You go check. What is your vast occupying army doing? And has been doing for the past 60 years?
_________________
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated, until defeat has been accepted as a reality." -- Bruce Lee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1606
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mostly drinking beer, collecting Hummel figurines, and overseeing The Pussification.
_________________
| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aidanjt
Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Rep. of Ireland
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| flysideways wrote: | | aidanjt wrote: | | Medicine hundreds of thousands wouldn't ever have needed to begin with if there wasn't a systematic effort by fundies and catholics to keep them ignorant and resourceless when it comes to preventative sexual health. |
I suspect the aversion to condom use is a bit more contributory here. |
An aversion largely instilled by the systematic way the religious bar people from their use. Do you think they'd still have an aversion to condoms if it were clearly explained to them that HIV is a biological contagion which can infect people through microtears in genital skin, and all you have to do to prevent being infected is wear a condom, which you can help yourself to here, and it'll also have the side benefit of preventing pregnancies and having children you can't afford to feed, and not be threatened with consequences for doing so? It's a no-brainer. Africans aren't stupid, they just got screwed by the West, and they're still getting screwed by the West.
_________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sikpuppy
n00b
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Propofol never did Michael Jackson any harm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Off the Wall
