| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
 Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Squirrel!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | | Squirrel!! |
Congress dodge ? Nice move
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Advocate
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4693
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| John-Boy wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | I disagree. If it is shown then their capability to launch chrm attack needs to be stopped. |
We should stay completely and utterly out at all costs. This is an internal matter and needs to be resolved by the Syrian people. |
YES and NO
A pure civil war, yes we have no right to go in UNTIL the humanitarian complications become too dire. Libya was too soon and was purely for a regime change and the entire situation was fiddled by the west for that... loose enough mandate etc..
I am referring to the UN security council doing what it is contractually/bound by treaty to uphold. People are suffering at the hands of some very nasty weapons.
*IF* it is proven that such weapons were used (and confirmed by the non external aggressors [referring to the US's so called "proof"]) ASSUMING it is proven it was from Assad's regime ASSUMING it is taking to the UN security council and is voted upon, then we are founding members, permanent members of the security council have an obligation to act with VERY specific strike onto chem stores - ie cruise missiles, earthquake bombs NOT foot on the ground stuff, its their war. This is about leveling the playing field.
If China/Russia veto but everyone else votes yes (or abstains) then there is enough wiggle room to go in *IF* the evidence is there. After which Russia needs a talking to
I do like having the Economist in my google+ feed for KAL's sketches 
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naib wrote: | | the humanitarian complications become too dire. |
You get the government that you deserve.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| energyman76b wrote: | | the problem needs to be solved at its root! Bomb Saudi Arabia! |
Yep.
Those fuckers are evil.
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It emanates from the Black Borg Box thing they've got down in Mecca. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cokey
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3339
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They have a pretty good military so I agree. It's about time they did something
_________________
when you're sitting back, in your rose pink Cadillac
Making bets on Kentucky Derby Day
I'll be in my basement room, with a needle and a spoon
And another girl to take my pain away... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Note that the Arab League are making similar overtures, the dichotomy between that statement and the line issued in mosques across the region will be ... interesting ...
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Leave it up to the Arab League.
Is that anything like the English Premiere League?
_________________
Irony is asking government to fix the problems it caused |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cokey
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3339
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Old School wrote: | Leave it up to the Arab League.
Is that anything like the English Premiere League? |
No, more like the WNBA
_________________
when you're sitting back, in your rose pink Cadillac
Making bets on Kentucky Derby Day
I'll be in my basement room, with a needle and a spoon
And another girl to take my pain away... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cokehabit wrote: | | Old School wrote: | Leave it up to the Arab League.
Is that anything like the English Premiere League? |
No, more like the WNBA |
Nappy-headed? That's racist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cokey
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3339
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | Old School wrote: | Leave it up to the Arab League.
Is that anything like the English Premiere League? |
No, more like the WNBA |
Nappy-headed? That's racist. |
Shite
_________________
when you're sitting back, in your rose pink Cadillac
Making bets on Kentucky Derby Day
I'll be in my basement room, with a needle and a spoon
And another girl to take my pain away... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naib
Advocate
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4693
Location: Removed by Neddy
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Following this a bit more, the "demand" from the US for a quick commons vote was a stupid demand from the US and even stupider by the PM to act on it especially in light of Iraq and the perpetual spun misdirection with regards to the justification...
BUT while it looks like an egg on the face for the gov'n with regards to this at the time of the vote, it seems there was some underlining domestic political ammunition involved. If it passed then sure go in, as it got turned down Labour now are having to plead to vote again making their original push to cause the vote to fail akin to schoolboy politics.
Its actually causing some uproar within the Labour party because they did not expect a "fine the commons say no so no"
I suspect ONCE a firm result from the UN is received Britain will be involved in some military capacity - maybe just air defence.
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In some serious revisionist history, John Kerry calls the French "our oldest allies". Well, I *guess* there is some truth to that in that during the revolutions there was a lot of cross pollination of ideas. But freedom fries only went on sale about 8 years ago. The brits and the canadians feel a little wam-bam-thank-you-maam about now. *sniff*. i am doubly affected.
_________________
| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| juniper wrote: | | In some serious revisionist history, John Kerry calls the French "our oldest allies". Well, I *guess* there is some truth to that in that during the revolutions there was a lot of cross pollination of ideas. But freedom fries only went on sale about 8 years ago. The brits and the canadians feel a little wam-bam-thank-you-maam about now. *sniff*. i am doubly affected. |
I am getting a big kick out of watching John Kerry, who was so vitriolic and asinine in his opposition to the Iraq war (once it became unpopular) and then especially the surge, be the one to now so vehemently make these bullshit arguments. I take it as proof that the man, in fact, has absolutely no ethical backbone and will say absolutely anything.
The kinds of arguments he is making, such as repeatedly insisting that these chemical attacks were not "contrived" (which nobody is claiming; the question is WHO did it), show disdain for the American and European public by assuming we are, on average, so pathetically stupid that this kind of crap would have a net effect of convincing people to support intervention.
Just for once I'd like to see us give our real reasons for wanting to use force, so people aren't left assuming, in the face of obvious lies, that it's to "steal oil" or "kill brown people" or the like. Also, I wish Obama would stop this stupidity of constantly telling everybody, enemy included, details of our military plans.
He did this in Iraq with respect to our withdrawal. He did it in Afghanistan with respect to our surge and our withdrawal timeline. And now he's doing it in Syria with respect to the decision drivers for involvement (which amounts to letting somebody else force our hand by using Chem), with respect to the nature and duration of our intervention, and with respect to our level of resolve. While he may feel that's politically beneficial, that shit gets people killed unnecessarily. In this case, it's probably why the chemical attacks happened, and why those 1,500 people died their horrible deaths. The attacks probably happened because he all but said, "Hey, you frame the Syrians for dropping chemical weapons, and we'll come help you." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16228
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| juniper wrote: | | In some serious revisionist history, John Kerry calls the French "our oldest allies". Well, I *guess* there is some truth to that in that during the revolutions there was a lot of cross pollination of ideas. But freedom fries only went on sale about 8 years ago. The brits and the canadians feel a little wam-bam-thank-you-maam about now. *sniff*. i am doubly affected. |
You're upset about something Kerry said regarding diplomacy?
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flysideways
Apprentice
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 151
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | | I am getting a big kick out of watching John Kerry |
++ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
o'bogamol
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 90
Location: Detroit, Michigan - The Home of Rock and Roll
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| flysideways wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | I am getting a big kick out of watching John Kerry |
++ |
++ Looking forward to his Jane Fonda moment.
_________________
Freedom is the oxygen of the soul. -Moshe Dayan
It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them. -J.R.R Tolkein |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Obama reveals true scope of planned Syria operations. He's slipping it in an inch at a time. Look at the word play here: "we're putting more emphasis on the 'degrade' portion now, of the 'deter and degrade' that I have consistently said very clearly is what we are doing blah blah blah..." He claims the Syrians are maneuvering chemical weapons for a massive chemical weapons attack, and we have to bomb the crap out of them to stop it.
Keep in mind this is a day or two after he said "this is not time sensitive" and went off to shoot a round of golf with Biden, and a day after Kerry told the Senate "we will not be sending one American serviceman to war" (in other words, 'let me be perfectly clear... as I have consistently said, this isn't war per se -- it's an overseas contingency operation'). He also denied Al Qaeda is operating in Syria.
What a steaming pile of rancid bullshit. It's like they're not even trying to lie convincingly, and don't give a rat's ass if people think they don't have any freaking idea what they are doing. What a clusterfuck.
| Quote: | WASHINGTON — President Obama has directed the Pentagon to develop an expanded list of potential targets in Syria in response to intelligence suggesting that the government of President Bashar al-Assad has been moving troops and equipment used to employ chemical weapons while Congress debates whether to authorize military action.
Mr. Obama, officials said, is now determined to put more emphasis on the “degrade” part of what the administration has said is the goal of a military strike against Syria — to “deter and degrade” Mr. Assad’s ability to use chemical weapons. That means expanding beyond the 50 or so major sites that were part of the original target list developed with French forces before Mr. Obama delayed action on Saturday to seek Congressional approval of his plan.
For the first time, the administration is talking about using American and French aircraft to conduct strikes on specific targets, in addition to ship-launched Tomahawk cruise missiles. There is a renewed push to get other NATO forces involved. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/world/middleeast/pentagon-is-ordered-to-expand-potential-targets-in-syria-with-a-focus-on-forces.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2042
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
delicious.
Your anger so delicious.
Compared to your reaction about the blatant lies Bush told everybody just to start a war in Iraq.
so, so delicious.
_________________
Study finds stunning lack of racial, gender, and economic diversity among middle-class white males
I identify as a dirty penismensch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16228
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| energyman76b wrote: | delicious.
Your anger so delicious.
Compared to your reaction about the blatant lies Bush told everybody just to start a war in Iraq.
so, so delicious. |
What is most delicious are the Bush haters ignoring what Obama is doing, with LESS justification than Bush had.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1580
Location: U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| energyman76b wrote: | delicious.
Your anger so delicious.
Compared to your reaction about the blatant lies Bush told everybody just to start a war in Iraq.
so, so delicious. |
Don't be a fool. The real "delicious" irony is that it is now being done AGAIN by the very people who complained about it the first time.
Also, you have no idea what my reaction was to the lies Bush told; that happened five years before I ever participated in this forum. All I have ever said since is that there were real reasons beneath those lies why we did invade, and that they should have explained what those were.
Now, I'm saying the same thing about Obama and his even more obviously false claims. I'm saying I don't object to intervention, but why can't we be honest about our reasons for it. I'm saying that lying like this leaves people to assume the real reasons are malicious (and that morons like you will claim it is to "steal oil" or "kill brown people" or the like, rather than understanding that it's to undo the damage done by European colonialism and imperialism and give a people their right to self-determination, to prevent the development of a powerful Middle Eastern military alliance opposed to the West (for example, one with Iran and Syria at its core), and to use every opportunity to strike Islamist forces when they do us the favor of massing for actual operations.
Also, the public are very much opposed to this, because they learned from the Bush lie and from Obama's recent lies. They are being told by our Government that we have incontrovertible evidence that Assad is the one who used these chemical weapons, and they don't believe it.
The question is whether our legislators, when presented with the classified details, will believe it or not, or whether they will say, "yeah, he's lying, but the real reasons for doing this are important enough". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BoneKracker wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | delicious.
Your anger so delicious.
Compared to your reaction about the blatant lies Bush told everybody just to start a war in Iraq.
so, so delicious. |
Don't be a fool. The real "delicious" irony is that it is now being done AGAIN by the very people who complained about it the first time.
|
I disagree. the iraq war was entirely manufactured, and that was clear from day one. this one is clearly not. obama didn't start the rebellion.
_________________
| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Off the Wall
