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Butts McCokey
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 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:15 am Post subject: Why do people still fly the Confederate flag? |
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| Quote: | A row has erupted in Virginia over a proposal to fly a huge Confederate flag outside the state capital, Richmond. One hundred and fifty years after the Civil War, the flag can still be seen flying from homes and cars in the South. Why?
For millions of young Britons growing up in the early 1980s, one particular image of the Confederate flag was beamed into living rooms across the UK every Saturday evening.
The flag emblazoned the roof of the General Lee, becoming a blur of white stars on a blue cross when at breathtaking speed, the Dodge Charger took the two heroes, Bo and Luke Duke, out of the clutches of the hapless police in The Dukes of Hazzard.
Thousands of miles from the fictional county of Hazzard in Georgia, it seemed like an innocent motif but in the US, the flag taken into battle by the Confederate states in the Civil War is politically charged - not a week goes by without its appearance sparking upset.
Recently, there's been a row in Texas over car licence plates bearing the flag, a man arrested after shouting abuse while waving it at a country music concert, and the ongoing fallout from South Carolina flying the flag in front of the State House.
Now plans by a heritage group, the Virginia Flaggers, to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road outside Richmond has drawn considerable fire from critics who say it's a symbol of hate.
That's not true, says Barry Isenhour, a member of the group, who says it's really about honouring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives, not slavery or race. For him, the war was not primarily about slavery but standing up to being over-taxed, and he says many southerners abhorred slavery.
"They fought for the family and fought for the state. We are tired of people saying they did something wrong. They were freedom-loving Americans who stood up to the tyranny of the North. They seceded from the US Government not from the American idea."
He displays a flag on his car but lives in a street where the flying of any flags is not permitted. He sees fewer and fewer flags now because people are less inclined to fly them in the face of hostility. Monuments honouring southern Civil War generals are regularly vandalised, he says.
Denouncing the "hateful" groups like the Ku Klux Klan who he says have dishonoured the flag, he adds that people should be just as offended by the Union Jack, the Dutch flag or the Stars and Stripes, because they all flew for nations practising slavery. |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23705803
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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There is no reason to believe it is specifically associated with slavery. People choose to associate it with slavery because the South lost the war and the South favored slavery. If people would focus on themselves, they'd probably achieve something useful.
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Robert E. Lee owned no slaves, and did not believe in the institution. The Confederate flag is just another excuse for the race baiters to bring in more donations, and for the "woe is me, my great, great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave, so those creepy ass crackers should not be allowed to fly the Confederate, racist flag" Democrat Party Negro Plantation members.
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of southern Marines fly the confederate flag to identify where they're from. |
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sikpuppy
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: |
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As long as people who fly it put it up at dawn, take it down at dusk and fly it at half mast when appropriate I have no problem at all. People who do the following are morons:
1. Fly a flag that is in tatters.
2. Put flags on their cat hood/bonnet like they are some sort of embassy vehicle.
3. Have a flag shaped like a windsock/hat/penis/their mum/wardrobe.
4. Have an upside down flag (unless they live in Hawaii).
5. Have a flag that has the bits they don't like missing/bits they think are cool added.
6. A flag tattoo, especially on their bellend.
7. A plastic/wood/fairyfloss/paper/nanotube flag.
8. A flag not made in the country from which it is the official flag.
9. Have a fluttering flag as a screensaver unless they are the first computer president, President Dipped Taught.
10. Dye their pet fish/hamster/chihuahua/slave in the flag.
11. Burn any official flag thinking they are making a statement that isn't "I am a moron".
There's probably others, but I am working on my list of things about food shopping that shit me and there's only so many hours in the day. |
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juniper
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | Robert E. Lee owned no slaves, and did not believe in the institution. The Confederate flag is just another excuse for the race baiters to bring in more donations, and for the "woe is me, my great, great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave, so those creepy ass crackers should not be allowed to fly the Confederate, racist flag" Democrat Party Negro Plantation members. |
just because Lee didn't have slaves doesn't mean that that's not what the flag represents to some people. the fact is that the confederate states were slave states. people don't forget slavery easily. of course people should be allowed to raise the flag if they wish, but they should realize how it is being interpreted.
I once saw the confederate flag being flown in britain. creepy ass shit if you ask me.
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception. |
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ratmonkey
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Around me, it's mostly flown by racist morons who know little to nothing about the history of era that produced that flag, the CSA, or what it stood for. It has the dual purpose for this breed of idiot to show that they're a "rebel" that, "won't take no shit" (especially from black people), and also that to let everyone know that they don't like black people or other minorities.
Usually it's applied as a sticker on the back window of their over-sized pickup truck. Every-once in a while it's flown by someone that doesn't sport an extra chromosome, and they usually offer up the explanation that the confederate flag more closely represents their belief in state rights. But in reality, they usually are also closet racists that will eventually cut loose in front of me with some racist tirade in a moment of high emotions.
Also what is commonly known as the "Confederate Flag" is a actually a Confederate Navy Jack that was also derived from the Army of Northern Virginia's battle flag. It was never an official CSA national flag, but the battle flag was incorporated in the final few designs that were adopted prior to their loss of the civil war.
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Butts McCokey
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | Old School wrote: | | Robert E. Lee owned no slaves, and did not believe in the institution. The Confederate flag is just another excuse for the race baiters to bring in more donations, and for the "woe is me, my great, great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave, so those creepy ass crackers should not be allowed to fly the Confederate, racist flag" Democrat Party Negro Plantation members. |
just because Lee didn't have slaves doesn't mean that that's not what the flag represents to some people. the fact is that the confederate states were slave states. people don't forget slavery easily. of course people should be allowed to raise the flag if they wish, but they should realize how it is being interpreted.
I once saw the confederate flag being flown in britain. creepy ass shit if you ask me. |
People don't forget slavery easily?
Pretty good memories when one considers it ended about 10 generations ago, over a century before the current race baiters were even born. That would be like me hating the US government and all the citizens of the country for what happened to my Native ancestors. It has absolutely zero bearing on my life, how I live it, interact with others and so on. Maybe I should hate all "niggers" because of the Buffalo Soldiers that killed and force relocated my ancestors. Pretty stupid, right? So is your argument. 
Booker T. Washington warned about the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons when he said:
| Quote: | | There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Ignorance is definitely a problem regarding the flag.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Ignorance is definitely a problem regarding the flag. |
Amen, Brother!
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juniper
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: |
just because Lee didn't have slaves doesn't mean that that's not what the flag represents to some people. the fact is that the confederate states were slave states. people don't forget slavery easily. of course people should be allowed to raise the flag if they wish, but they should realize how it is being interpreted.
I once saw the confederate flag being flown in britain. creepy ass shit if you ask me. |
People don't forget slavery easily?
Pretty good memories when one considers it ended about 10 generations ago, over a century before the current race baiters were even born.[/quote]
indeed, but the civil rights movement only took place in the 60s, when blacks were barred from going to certain state universities. yeah, slavery was a long time ago, but its legacy lived on.
| Quote: |
That would be like me hating the US government and all the citizens of the country for what happened to my Native ancestors. It has absolutely zero bearing on my life, how I live it, interact with others and so on. Maybe I should hate all "niggers" because of the Buffalo Soldiers that killed and force relocated my ancestors. Pretty stupid, right? So is your argument.
Booker T. Washington warned about the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons when he said:
| Quote: | | There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. |
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I didn't say people should use it as a reason to hate, as you illustrate you should not. I am glad that you don't hate "the white man", but I would understand that if one of your white neighbours celebrated a symbol of native oppression that you would be irked.
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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People should not use slavery as an excuse for where THEY are in life. People should not use slavery as an excuse as to what their culture is TODAY.
But that is all you hear from the race baiters. Woe is me, the white man oppressed my ancestors.
Fucking get over it!
Look at Japanese Americans as an example. Thrown into concentration camps during my parent's generation. Do you see Americans of Japanese descent moaning and bitching; using history as an excuse for their own cultural demise?
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | There is no reason to believe it is specifically associated with slavery. People choose to associate it with slavery because the South lost the war and the South favored slavery. If people would focus on themselves, they'd probably achieve something useful. |
and they seperated to keep those slaves and even put slavery into their constitution.
so what was your argument again?
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | so what was your argument again? |
I know you think you're communicating, but you really aren't.
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eponymous_dick
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Ignorance is definitely a problem regarding the flag. |
Amen, Brother! |
Leftist fear mongering is the problem. They program minorities to be afraid of it, so they'll vote Democrat. What they don't tell them is that the Democrats were the first people who flew that flag, first as anti-abolitionist terrorists, then as a rebel army, and then as segregationists and KKK Klansmen. They'll tell you, "yeah but those days are gone", but when told that the flag is now nothing more than a piece of historical sentimentalism, will insist that those days are not gone.
If it were actually readonable for minorities to fear the CSA flag, then they should tremble in terror at the sound of a Democrat politician and that party should be abolished or at least forced to change its name.
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Muso
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Just like the Union Jack, and people still fly that.
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| sikpuppy wrote: | As long as people who fly it put it up at dawn, take it down at dusk and fly it at half mast when appropriate I have no problem at all. People who do the following are morons:
1. Fly a flag that is in tatters.
2. Put flags on their cat hood/bonnet like they are some sort of embassy vehicle.
3. Have a flag shaped like a windsock/hat/penis/their mum/wardrobe.
4. Have an upside down flag (unless they live in Hawaii).
5. Have a flag that has the bits they don't like missing/bits they think are cool added.
6. A flag tattoo, especially on their bellend.
7. A plastic/wood/fairyfloss/paper/nanotube flag.
8. A flag not made in the country from which it is the official flag.
9. Have a fluttering flag as a screensaver unless they are the first computer president, President Dipped Taught.
10. Dye their pet fish/hamster/chihuahua/slave in the flag.
11. Burn any official flag thinking they are making a statement that isn't "I am a moron".
There's probably others, but I am working on my list of things about food shopping that shit me and there's only so many hours in the day. |
I like number eight.
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eponymous_dick
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Actually, flying a flag at night is condoned, if you have a spotlight on it, but I think that's the lazy solution.
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I didn't realize those rules applied to all flags.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
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sikpuppy
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | I didn't realize those rules applied to all flags. |
No, those knickers they raised at the local high school do not need to be left up until dusk. |
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Butts McCokey
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Just like the Union Jack, and people still fly that. |
You're thinking of the cross of St George. That was appropriated by the skinheads. That has been reclaimed over the past decade and it's no longer a sign of racism
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Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?
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McGruff
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a fine line between celebrating identity and simple fascism. Tribal insignia quickly degenerate into a simple message: we're different, we're better than others, fuck you! |
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Muso
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | I just see it as a symbol of white trash and ignorance |
Just like the Union Jack, and people still fly that. |
You're thinking of the cross of St George. That was appropriated by the skinheads. That has been reclaimed over the past decade and it's no longer a sign of racism |
No, I'm thinking of the Union Jack. The flag that was planted all over the planet to take over lands of "brown people" by white trash.
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richk449
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | Old School wrote: | | Robert E. Lee owned no slaves, and did not believe in the institution. The Confederate flag is just another excuse for the race baiters to bring in more donations, and for the "woe is me, my great, great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave, so those creepy ass crackers should not be allowed to fly the Confederate, racist flag" Democrat Party Negro Plantation members. |
just because Lee didn't have slaves doesn't mean that that's not what the flag represents to some people. the fact is that the confederate states were slave states. people don't forget slavery easily. of course people should be allowed to raise the flag if they wish, but they should realize how it is being interpreted.
I once saw the confederate flag being flown in britain. creepy ass shit if you ask me. |
People don't forget slavery easily?
Pretty good memories when one considers it ended about 10 generations ago, over a century before the current race baiters were even born. |
And African Americans were given the same rights as other US citizens at that time? No, that only happened about two generations ago. If you think that two generations is plenty of time to overcome centuries of repression, then go ahead and argue that. But don't pretend that the last relevant event in American race relations was the civil war.
| Quote: | | That would be like me hating the US government and all the citizens of the country for what happened to my Native ancestors. |
You shouldn't hate anyone. But if someone flys the flag representing the south in the civil war, which seceded from the US explicitly to retain slavery, then it is safe to assume that person is at least slightly racist.
| Quote: | | There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. |
[/quote]
Okay, there are a few people you can hate. |
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