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What is your core worldview?
Atheistic
54%
 54%  [ 17 ]
Theistic
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Polytheistic
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Agnostic
29%
 29%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 31

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John-Boy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
religions is that the other religions don't cure man.


Ever heard of the placebo effect ?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
valerios wrote:
religions is that the other religions don't cure man.


Ever heard of the placebo effect ?


Yep. Have you seen the lives of the saints?

American Saints: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Eastern_Orthodox_saints
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith. Gods of rivers and trees etc are expressions of an emotional connection to something. I'm sort of OK with that. Choosing, creating, and abandoning your own "small gods" seems quite a natural thing to do, so long as you don't try to take that too far. It's a way to express a rich, inner emotional life and your connections to the world around you.

Once you start believing in it though... That's a slippery slope to all kinds of evil.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith....

Once you start believing in it though... That's a slippery slope to all kinds of evil.


Why?

*edit*

Sorry, a better way to state the question. How do you derive to that conclusion?
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Last edited by Bigun on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith. Gods of rivers and trees etc are expressions of an emotional connection to something. I'm sort of OK with that. Choosing, creating, and abandoning your own "small gods" seems quite a natural thing to do, so long as you don't try to take that too far. It's a way to express a rich, inner emotional life and your connections to the world around you.

Once you start believing in it though... That's a slippery slope to all kinds of evil.


Orthodoxy isn't a religion.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Why?


Because when one group polls 66% they have a two-thirds majority and can burn unbelievers.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Bigun wrote:
Why?


Because when one group polls 66% they have a two-thirds majority and can burn unbelievers.


This is fanaticism.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith. Gods of rivers and trees etc are expressions of an emotional connection to something. I'm sort of OK with that. Choosing, creating, and abandoning your own "small gods" seems quite a natural thing to do, so long as you don't try to take that too far. It's a way to express a rich, inner emotional life and your connections to the world around you.

Once you start believing in it though... That's a slippery slope to all kinds of evil.


Orthodoxy isn't a religion.
uhm, yeah, I'm not totally subscribed to that, really. redefining words is very popular in politics, but... not such a good idea in general. Daoism and all. Daoism, however, really isn't a religion :D.

valerios wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Bigun wrote:
Why?


Because when one group polls 66% they have a two-thirds majority and can burn unbelievers.


This is fanaticism.
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Bigun wrote:
Why?


Because when one group polls 66% they have a two-thirds majority and can burn unbelievers.


Doesn't mean they would. Unbelievers would also have that same power over us if they were majority, hardly a decent argument.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....


Or Atheistic, Judaic.... any group of people is capable of an atrocity.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember when I said that I don't aruge with religious people unless they do harm to others your terrible handle on science can do harm to others mentally. So let me address your post.
valerios wrote:

There are many things that aren't proved scientifically 100% and aren't accepted. For example darwins theory...

BAD example. The theory of evolution is one of the most widely accepted scientific theories. Note that when I refer to theory I am not referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory kind of theory. I am talking about a scientific theory. Don't worry this is a common misconception but I think it is very important to understand that difference. For something to be a scientific theory it requires lots of evidence. Evolution has an overwhelming amount of evidence. Even the DNA inside of you proves evolution. So every human being has built in evidence for evolution so denying evolution is just wrong.
Quote:

But all of these you've said are good things.

“Science” is the study of everything created. “Theology” is the revelation of the Uncreated. The two of them together, are the two legs that help one to stand upright in the world, by having proper knowledge of one’s environment, as well as of one’s Creator.

NO!!!! Theology has accomplished nothing. Science has saved lives and helps people better understand all things around us.
Quote:

In this section, we intend to include topics that not only bring out the unity between science and faith, but also either verify issues of faith, or assist in a more profound understanding of the findings of science.

This part of your post makes me cringe. Faith is belief without evidence. Science is the belief with evidence.
Quote:

It is our belief, that if a person lacks one of these two legs, his understanding of the world and the purpose of life will be lame.

That's just wrong why should you treat someone differently just because they don't have a leg. They had no say in if they wanted a leg or not.
Quote:
It's less agnostic.
And one believer can be and a good scientist. For example St.Luke the doctor(archbishop of Crimaia +1961) was the first man who did transplant from a kidney's calf to a young patient with almost nothing and 100% success.

The branch of science that St.Luke does not have anything to do with his religion try picking a better example.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdeininger wrote:
valerios wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
The worst possible types of religion are the fascistic ones which claim to be the only true faith. Gods of rivers and trees etc are expressions of an emotional connection to something. I'm sort of OK with that. Choosing, creating, and abandoning your own "small gods" seems quite a natural thing to do, so long as you don't try to take that too far. It's a way to express a rich, inner emotional life and your connections to the world around you.

Once you start believing in it though... That's a slippery slope to all kinds of evil.


Orthodoxy isn't a religion.
uhm, yeah, I'm not totally subscribed to that, really. redefining words is very popular in politics, but... not such a good idea in general. Daoism and all. Daoism, however, really isn't a religion :D.

valerios wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Bigun wrote:
Why?


Because when one group polls 66% they have a two-thirds majority and can burn unbelievers.


This is fanaticism.
think he meant that figuratively. although it's not unheard of in Christian contexts either....


Orthodox Christians never made crimes. Conversely we were victims of the Crusades, Ottomans,Arians,Pagans etc...

ComputerNerd wrote:
Remember when I said that I don't aruge with religious people unless they do harm to others your terrible handle on science can do harm to others mentally. So let me address your post.
valerios wrote:

There are many things that aren't proved scientifically 100% and aren't accepted. For example darwins theory...

BAD example. The theory of evolution is one of the most widely accepted scientific theories. Note that when I refer to theory I am not referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory kind of theory. I am talking about a scientific theory. Don't worry this is a common misconception but I think it is very important to understand that difference. For something to be a scientific theory it requires lots of evidence. Evolution has an overwhelming amount of evidence. Even the DNA inside of you proves evolution. So every human being has built in evidence for evolution so denying evolution is just wrong.
Quote:

But all of these you've said are good things.

“Science” is the study of everything created. “Theology” is the revelation of the Uncreated. The two of them together, are the two legs that help one to stand upright in the world, by having proper knowledge of one’s environment, as well as of one’s Creator.

NO!!!! Theology has accomplished nothing. Science has saved lives and helps people better understand all things around us.
Quote:

In this section, we intend to include topics that not only bring out the unity between science and faith, but also either verify issues of faith, or assist in a more profound understanding of the findings of science.

This part of your post makes me cringe. Faith is belief without evidence. Science is the belief with evidence.
Quote:

It is our belief, that if a person lacks one of these two legs, his understanding of the world and the purpose of life will be lame.

That's just wrong why should you treat someone differently just because they don't have a leg. They had no say in if they wanted a leg or not.
Quote:
It's less agnostic.
And one believer can be and a good scientist. For example St.Luke the doctor(archbishop of Crimaia +1961) was the first man who did transplant from a kidney's calf to a young patient with almost nothing and 100% success.

The branch of science that St.Luke does not have anything to do with his religion try picking a better example.


Evolution: oodegr.com/english/epistimi/Evolution.htm

It's called THEORY. It can be overturned every time.

Theology accomplished theosis.

Religion & Science from St.Luke: http://www.oodegr.com/english/epistimi/science_and_religion.htm
You can see that if you want.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:

Evolution: oodegr.com/english/epistimi/Evolution.htm

It's called THEORY. It can be overturned every time.

Theology accomplished theosis.

Religion & Science from St.Luke: http://www.oodegr.com/english/epistimi/science_and_religion.htm
You can see that if you want.

DID YOU READ MY POST!!! I explained the difference between a scientific theory and a regular theory. Creationism is the dumbest belief ever your god is not capable of creating people because your god could not even find an efficient way to "forgive sins" your god had to kill his only son what an idiot. That is so petty and earthbound. Also I am not saying Jesus was real either in fact there is a high chance even if there was a Jesus from that time period it was just someone pretending to do those miracles.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
valerios wrote:

Evolution: oodegr.com/english/epistimi/Evolution.htm

It's called THEORY. It can be overturned every time.

Theology accomplished theosis.

Religion & Science from St.Luke: http://www.oodegr.com/english/epistimi/science_and_religion.htm
You can see that if you want.

DID YOU READ MY POST!!! I explained the difference between a scientific theory and a regular theory. Creationism is the dumbest belief ever your god is not capable of creating people because your god could not even find an efficient way to "forgive sins" your god had to kill his only son what an idiot. That is so petty and earthbound. Also I am not saying Jesus was real either in fact there is a high chance even if there was a Jesus from that time period it was just someone pretending to do those miracles.


First of all you weren't there to tell that they were fake miracles(yet i believe they were miracles because it's based on faith..).

And 2nd: You have human logic. You think as a human. Not as God. It's natural for you to think God's logic insane. That's why God is a mystery. Because you can't think like him(yeah i believe that, don't tell me now about the people who are killed every day blahblah....)

The sins were so many (of all the world of all times) that he had to do that(according to Him). But because we're sinners he left us and other things(the mysteries).


Last edited by valerios on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
...
Also I am not saying Jesus was real either in fact there is a high chance even if there was a Jesus from that time period it was just someone pretending to do those miracles.


*groan*

He existed, let's just establish that now, he did. There is far too much historical evidence to back this up.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:

First of all you weren't there to tell that they were fake miracles(yet i believe they were miracles..).

And 2nd: You have human logic. You think as a human. Not as God. It's natural for you to think God's logic insane. That's why God is a mystery. Because you can't think like him(yeah i believe that, don't tell me now about the people who are killed every day blahblah....)

The sins were so many (of All the world of all times) that he had to do that(according to Him).

If your god was so powerful and all knowing your god will would have been able to not create sins in the first place. Or at-least submit a patch for humans to remove the sins. Sins are a bug not a feature most people patch bugs when they find them. Your god should be capable of that but has not so this proves that your god does not exist.
Bigun wrote:

*groan*
He existed, let's just establish that now, he did. There is far too much historical evidence to back this up.

I did not say a person who claimed to be the next messiah exist I am saying could have been a person who pretened to be the next messiah and who pretended do miracles.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
valerios wrote:

First of all you weren't there to tell that they were fake miracles(yet i believe they were miracles..).

And 2nd: You have human logic. You think as a human. Not as God. It's natural for you to think God's logic insane. That's why God is a mystery. Because you can't think like him(yeah i believe that, don't tell me now about the people who are killed every day blahblah....)

The sins were so many (of All the world of all times) that he had to do that(according to Him).

If your god was so powerful and all knowing your god will would have been able to not create sins in the first place. Or at-least submit a patch for humans to remove the sins. Sins are a bug not a feature most people patch bugs when they find them. Your god should be capable of that but has not so this proves that your god does not exist.
Bigun wrote:

*groan*
He existed, let's just establish that now, he did. There is far too much historical evidence to back this up.

I did not say a person who claimed to be the next messiah exist I am saying could have been a person who pretened to be the next messiah and who pretended do miracles.


He did that because he love human so much that he gave him freedom so he can stay with him only if he wants.

Noyone talked about you. You'll die and noyone will remember you. But Jesus and the saints who achieved theosis are known & honoured although they were humble(and many of them as Great).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
I did not say a person who claimed to be the next messiah exist I am saying could have been a person who pretened to be the next messiah and who pretended do miracles.


Ok good, I didn't want to deal with someone that far gone. Let's start there, do you know why or how Jesus got attributed his miracle giving?

PS - about to take the wife out to dinner, be back after eating some steak.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:

He did that because he love human so much that he gave him freedom so he can stay with him only if he wants.
No-one talked about you. You'll die and no-one will remember you. But Jesus and the saints who achieved theosis are known & honored although they were humble(and many of them as Great).

I love humans so much that I would not create a false religion. Also I think the claim that literally no-one will remember me is false.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
valerios wrote:

He did that because he love human so much that he gave him freedom so he can stay with him only if he wants.
No-one talked about you. You'll die and no-one will remember you. But Jesus and the saints who achieved theosis are known & honored although they were humble(and many of them as Great).

I love humans so much that I would not create a false religion. Also I think the claim that literally no-one will remember me is false.


He didn't created a religion. He revealed us the truth.


"I'll answer with your logic sir. If your beliefs are true then i don't lose anything, rather it's good for my health, with my specific diet.
But have you ever thought if those that i believe are straight, how you're harmed?"
-Eugenios Voulgaris reply to Didero and Voltaire because they were kidding him for fasting

It is said that the diners applauded the response of Eugene Voulgaris and Voltaire did not know where to go to hide...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:

He didn't created a religion. He revealed us the truth.

How about this if by the end of the day Jesus materializes and lets me take a picture of him I will post it here and give you a full apology. You believe that your god is always watching people so by your belief your god will be watching me post this and accept my challenge and make Jesus appear in front of me. However if Jesus does not materializes then this will prove that Jesus is not capable of real miracles. Also I tried to respond to the rest of your post but I could not understand it. It makes no sense to me what do you mean?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
valerios wrote:

He didn't created a religion. He revealed us the truth.

How about this if by the end of the day Jesus materializes and lets me take a picture of him I will post it here and give you a full apology. You believe that your god is always watching people so by your belief your god will be watching me post this and accept my challenge and make Jesus appear in front of me. However if Jesus does not materializes then this will prove that Jesus is not capable of real miracles. Also I tried to respond to the rest of your post but I could not understand it. It makes no sense to me what do you mean?


For God's sake you'll never think like a God. Realize that.

Stop delusional thinking.

"Also I tried to respond to the rest of your post but I could not understand it. It makes no sense to me what do you mean?"
What part did you say? I log out. I'll be here tomorrow... Good night guys.


Last edited by valerios on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valerios wrote:

For God's sake you'll never think like a God. Realize that.
Stop delusional thinking.
"Also I tried to respond to the rest of your post but I could not understand it. It makes no sense to me what do you mean?"
What part do you say? I log out. I'll be here tomorrow... Good night guys.

I am not diluting things I am saying that if your god was real it would be very simple for your god to tell everyone that your god exists.
I quoted some of your post above but I did not quote the part that I did not understand.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComputerNerd wrote:
valerios wrote:

For God's sake you'll never think like a God. Realize that.
Stop delusional thinking.
"Also I tried to respond to the rest of your post but I could not understand it. It makes no sense to me what do you mean?"
What part do you say? I log out. I'll be here tomorrow... Good night guys.

I am not diluting things I am saying that if your god was real it would be very simple for your god to tell everyone that your god exists.
I quoted some of your post above but I did not quote the part that I did not understand.


Quote that to your reply now and i'll answer you tomorrow. Don't have time now. Good night my friend.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I was talking about.
valerios wrote:
"I'll answer with your logic sir. If your beliefs are true then i don't lose anything, rather it's good for my health, with my specific diet.
But have you ever thought if those that i believe are straight, how you're harmed?"
-Eugenios Voulgaris reply to Didero and Voltaire because they were kidding him for fasting
It is said that the diners applauded the response of Eugene Voulgaris and Voltaire did not know where to go to hide...

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