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Muso
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Why Democrats Love To Spy On Americans Reply with quote

Besides Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall, most Democrats abandoned their civil liberty positions during the age of Obama. With a new leak investigation looming, the Democrat leadership are now being forced to confront all the secrets they’ve tried to hide.

Quote:
For most bigwig Democrats in Washington, D.C., the last 48 hours has delivered news of the worst kind — a flood of new information that has washed away any lingering doubts about where President Obama and his party stand on civil liberties, full stop.

Glenn Greenwald’s exposure of the NSA’s massive domestic spy program has revealed the entire caste of current Democratic leaders as a gang of civil liberty opportunists, whose true passion, it seems, was in trolling George W. Bush for eight years on matters of national security.

“Everyone should just calm down,” Senator Harry Reid said yesterday, inhaling slowly.

That’s right: don’t panic.

The very topic of Democratic two-facedness on civil liberties is one of the most important issues that Greenwald has covered. Many of those Dems — including the sitting President Barack Obama, Senator Carl Levin, and Sec. State John Kerry — have now become the stewards and enhancers of programs that appear to dwarf any of the spying scandals that broke during the Bush years, the very same scandals they used as wedge issues to win elections in the Congressional elections 2006 and the presidential primary of 2007-2008.

Recall what Senator Levin told CNN in 2005, demanding to “urgently hold an inquiry” into what was supposedly President Bush’s domestic wiretap program.

Levin continued, at length: “It means that there’s some growing concern on Capitol Hill about a program which seems to be so totally unauthorized and unexplained…The president wraps himself in the law, saying that it is totally legal, but he doesn’t give what the legal basis is for this. He avoided using the law, which we provided to the president, where even when there is an emergency and there’s a need for urgent action can first tap the wire and then go to a court.”

There are two notable exception to this rule are Senator Ron Wyden, from Oregon, and Sen. Mark Udall from Colorado, who had seemed to be fighting a largely lonely, frustrating battle against Obama’s national security state.

As Mark Udall told the Denver Post yesterday: “[I] did everything short of leaking classified information” to stop it.

His ally in Oregon, Ron Wyden, was one of the first to seize on the Guardian’s news break: “I will tell you from a policy standpoint, when a law-abiding citizen makes a call, they expect that who they call, when they call and where they call from will be kept private,” Wyden said to Politico, noting “there’s going to be a big debate about this.” The Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, admitted he’d mislead Senator Wyden at a hearing earlier this year, revising his statement yesterday to state that the NSA didn’t do “voyerustic” surveillance.

The state of affairs, in other words, is so grave that two sitting Senators went as close as they could to violating their unconstitutional security oaths in order to warn the country of information that otherwise would not have been declassified until April of 2038, according to the Verizon court order obtained by Greenwald.

Now, we’re about to see if the Obama administration’s version of the national security state will begin to eat itself.

Unsurprisingly, the White House has dug in, calling their North Korea-esque tools “essential” to stop terrorism, and loathe to give up the political edge they’ve seized for Democrats on national security issues under Obama’s leadership.

The AP spying scandal — which the administration attempted to downplay at the time, even appointing Eric Holder to lead his own investigation into himself —was one of the unexpected consequences of one of two leak investigations that Obama ordered during the 2012 campaign.

It’s unclear where a possible third leak investigation would lead. However, judging by the DOJ’s and FBI’s recent history, it would seem that any new leak case would involve obtaining the phone records of reporters at the Guardian, the Washington Post, employees at various agencies who would have had access to the leaked material, as well as politicians and staffers in Congress—records, we now can safely posit, they already have unchecked and full access to.

In short: any so-called credible DOJ/FBI leak investigation, by its very nature, would have to involve the Obama administration invasively using the very surveillance and data techniques it is attempting to hide in order to snoop on a few Democratic Senators and more media outlets, including one based overseas.

Outside of Washington, D.C., the frustration that Wyden and Udall have felt has been exponentially magnified. Transparency supporters, whistleblowers, and investigative reporters, especially those writers who have aggressively pursued the connections between the corporate defense industry and federal and local authorities involved in domestic surveillance, have been viciously attacked by the Obama administration and its allies in the FBI and DOJ.

Jacob Appplebaum, a transparency activist and computer savant, has been repeatedly harassed at American borders, having his laptop seized. Barrett Brown, another investigative journalist who has written for Vanity Fair, among others publications, exposed the connections between the private contracting firm HB Gary (a government contracting firm that, incidentally, proposed a plan to spy on and ruin the reputation of the Guardian’s Greenwald) and who is currently sitting in a Texas prison on trumped up FBI charges regarding his legitimate reportorial inquiry into the political collective known sometimes as Anonymous.

That’s not to mention former NSA official Thomas Drake (the Feds tried to destroys his life because he blew the whistle ); Fox News reporter James Rosen (named a “co-conspirator” by Holder’s DOJ); John Kirakou, formerly in the CIA, who raised concerns about the agency’s torture program, is also in prison for leaking “harmful” (read: embarrassing) classified info; and of course Wikileaks (under U.S. financial embargo); WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange (locked up in Ecuador’s London embassy) and, of course, Bradley Manning, the young, idealistic, soldier who provided the public with perhaps the most critical trove of government documents ever released.

The attitude the Obama administration has toward Manning is revealing. What do they think of him? “Fuck Bradely Manning,” as one White House official put it to me last year during the campaign.

Screw Manning? Lol, screw us.

Perhaps more information will soon be forthcoming.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they keep letting Holder do his own investigations into his own behaviors I don't see what anyone (other than all citizens) have to worry about.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Why Democrats Love To Spy On Americans
Personally the "why" doesn't concern me all that much. If only it were limited to Democrats. Boehner is clearly untrustworthy, and House Republicans thought that was a Good Idea. At least Pelosi came right out and said she wasn't going to pursue Bush.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republicans are stodgy and pig-headed. Democrats are fucking evil.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republicans aren't doing much except cashing in on acting like they're interested. Some people are buying it, so good for them I guess. Republicans are worse IMO (this time around) because of the act. Democrats aren't even acting like they care.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, most of the Repubicans I have heard from are defending the program, if not Obama.

I like what Ron Paul said, though. He said he's afraid somebody in our government will have this whistleblower killed with a drone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Actually, most of the Repubicans I have heard from are defending the program, if not Obama.

I like what Ron Paul said, though. He said he's afraid somebody in our government will have this whistleblower killed with a drone.

Yeah, perhaps some filibuster speechwriter will talk him to death.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Republicans are stodgy and pig-headed. Democrats are fucking evil.


++

Couldn't agree more strongly.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

schwarzenegger is the only cool republican, Denis Kucinich the only cool democrat...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WikiLeaks says Michael Hastings contacted it just before his death. Are they implying he was murdered?

Quote:
WikiLeaks just threw some gasoline onto the conspiracy fire. On Wednesday night, they Tweeted: “Michael Hastings contacted WikiLeaks lawyer Jennifer Robinson just a few hours before he died, saying that the FBI was investigating him.”

What exactly are they trying to say?

Michael Hastings was a much admired freelance journalist who covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and helped to bring down General Stanley McChrystal. He was tragically killed this week in a car crash in Los Angeles, after his car hit a tree. Hastings is believed to have been alone in the vehicle.


Why Democrats Love To Spy On Americans was his last article.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes a car wreck is just a car wreck.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
Sometimes a car wreck is just a car wreck.

:lol:
I bet they didn't thought about that when they fucked in the morning... ain't life a bitch?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
Sometimes a car wreck is just a car wreck.

bonnie and clyde were enemies to society at large... the government and the people. democrats are actively prosecuting the champions of society who defend "we the people" from the government.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granted. And they used a bush because they didn't have access to drones yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just think what it will be like in ten years or so, when they have insect-sized drones armed with nerve agent.

You'll be walking to the office, and you'll hear a swarm of them buzzing through the streets, hunting down some poor bastard who bad-mouthed a Democrat or spoke out against the 60% income tax rate. The poor bastard died of a heart attack, of course.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Actually, most of the Repubicans I have heard from are defending the program, if not Obama.

I like what Ron Paul said, though. He said he's afraid somebody in our government will have this whistleblower killed with a drone.
Demonstrating my point. They ACT like Obama "has to go," but when it comes right down to it, they don't object to much of anything he's done. Nothing that has any importance.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, this is mildly amusing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Actually, most of the Repubicans I have heard from are defending the program, if not Obama.

I like what Ron Paul said, though. He said he's afraid somebody in our government will have this whistleblower killed with a drone.
Demonstrating my point. They ACT like Obama "has to go," but when it comes right down to it, they don't object to much of anything he's done. Nothing that has any importance.

Who cares what they say?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Just think what it will be like in ten years or so, when they have insect-sized drones armed with nerve agent.


It might be closer than you first though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every apologist or sedated cattle should see this podcast. It's 2:30 long, but you can skip 9 minutes or so of commercials at start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xkxLKrDPw&html5=1

Paraphrasing:
Yeah, I drank the cool-aid, but then it became clear that just because he said "Yes we can" it didn't mean that he would.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
You'll be walking to the office, and you'll hear a swarm of them buzzing through the streets, hunting down some poor bastard who bad-mouthed a Democrat or spoke out against the 60% income tax rate. The poor bastard died of a heart attack, of course.


That would actually be pretty cool. If we could get rid of all the loudmouthed ignoramuses on the right we could start dealing with real problems like climate change, redistributing wealth back to ordinary Americans, gun control, health care.

OK you talked me into it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
You'll be walking to the office, and you'll hear a swarm of them buzzing through the streets, hunting down some poor bastard who bad-mouthed a Democrat or spoke out against the 60% income tax rate. The poor bastard died of a heart attack, of course.


That would actually be pretty cool. If we could get rid of all the loudmouthed ignoramuses on the right we could start dealing with real problems like climate change, redistributing wealth back to ordinary Americans, gun control, health care.

OK you talked me into it.


Me too!!!! This is like the time I saw that bumper sticker that has the words "Kick 'Em Out!" and a graphic of the Dem Donkey kicking a Rep Elephant off the sticker. I couldn't agree more!!! So let's just do a split. All those fiscally responsible Republicans can make their own nation, and then all those liberal Democrats can have their own nation. Then the Democrats can have a blast trying to deal with any problems, like climate change, redistributing something they no longer have (because the fiscally responsible are all gone, remember?), there won't be any guns to control (well not in their country, and when gun-toting foreigners inevitably cross into the country they'll show the Democrats what proper control of a gun looks like I'm sure), and last the health care (which I guess will have to be a whole lot of group hugs and chanting about hope and change while singing, [maybe some prayer too?], because doctors like to get paid and well, the Democrats just got rid of most of the money that they were used to spending.)

Personally I wouldn't want to live in either place, but I'm still ALL FOR the separation. Perhaps some real ACTUAL change might come of it. Perhaps both extremes could learn something meaningful.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
You'll be walking to the office, and you'll hear a swarm of them buzzing through the streets, hunting down some poor bastard who bad-mouthed a Democrat or spoke out against the 60% income tax rate. The poor bastard died of a heart attack, of course.


That would actually be pretty cool. If we could get rid of all the loudmouthed ignoramuses on the right we could start dealing with real problems like climate change, redistributing wealth back to ordinary Americans, gun control, health care.

OK you talked me into it.


Me too!!!! This is like the time I saw that bumper sticker that has the words "Kick 'Em Out!" and a graphic of the Dem Donkey kicking a Rep Elephant off the sticker. I couldn't agree more!!! So let's just do a split. All those fiscally responsible Republicans can make their own nation, and then all those liberal Democrats can have their own nation. Then the Democrats can have a blast trying to deal with any problems, like climate change, redistributing something they no longer have (because the fiscally responsible are all gone, remember?), there won't be any guns to control (well not in their country, and when gun-toting foreigners inevitably cross into the country they'll show the Democrats what proper control of a gun looks like I'm sure), and last the health care (which I guess will have to be a whole lot of group hugs and chanting about hope and change while singing, [maybe some prayer too?], because doctors like to get paid and well, the Democrats just got rid of most of the money that they were used to spending.)

Personally I wouldn't want to live in either place, but I'm still ALL FOR the separation. Perhaps some real ACTUAL change might come of it. Perhaps both extremes could learn something meaningful.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Within one generation it would look like Haiti vs Dominican Republic. With the total dysfunction of Haiti being the natural result of all of the democrat party's stupid ideas.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
You'll be walking to the office, and you'll hear a swarm of them buzzing through the streets, hunting down some poor bastard who bad-mouthed a Democrat or spoke out against the 60% income tax rate. The poor bastard died of a heart attack, of course.


That would actually be pretty cool. If we could get rid of all the loudmouthed ignoramuses on the right we could start dealing with real problems like climate change, redistributing wealth back to ordinary Americans, gun control, health care.

OK you talked me into it.


Me too!!!! This is like the time I saw that bumper sticker that has the words "Kick 'Em Out!" and a graphic of the Dem Donkey kicking a Rep Elephant off the sticker. I couldn't agree more!!! So let's just do a split. All those fiscally responsible Republicans can make their own nation, and then all those liberal Democrats can have their own nation. Then the Democrats can have a blast trying to deal with any problems, like climate change, redistributing something they no longer have (because the fiscally responsible are all gone, remember?), there won't be any guns to control (well not in their country, and when gun-toting foreigners inevitably cross into the country they'll show the Democrats what proper control of a gun looks like I'm sure), and last the health care (which I guess will have to be a whole lot of group hugs and chanting about hope and change while singing, [maybe some prayer too?], because doctors like to get paid and well, the Democrats just got rid of most of the money that they were used to spending.)

Personally I wouldn't want to live in either place, but I'm still ALL FOR the separation. Perhaps some real ACTUAL change might come of it. Perhaps both extremes could learn something meaningful.


Sounds like Sweden!
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