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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Removed by Neddy
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 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | Big fucking deal. Do you have any idea how much labor unions spent last year on political influence? Approximate $4 Billion (according to the Department of Labor). Ooooh! Tens of millions of dollars! And look at your sources: some dude from the "Center for Left-Wing Asshattery" or something (the "Violence Policy Center is a fucking lobby themselves, son, and gets nearly a Billion dollars a year in revenue from where?). Unsuck the propaganda hose. 
You may also not be aware that 55% of the corporate "Super Pac" spending is done on behalf of Democrat candidates.
Also, you're just proving my point: re-read my post before my last one where I talked about the left-wing arm-flailing and propaganda about the NRA being a "corporate lobby". The NRA is as grass-roots as it gets. I was about to accuse you of trolling again, but now I think you actually buy into this crap.  |
There is a reason in the UK political adverts are - and have always been - banned on British TV and radio. That ban is widely supported and has helped sustain the balance of views which is at the heart of British broadcasting - and ensures the political views broadcast into our homes are not determined by those with the deepest pockets." (asshats in EU tried to have this overturned on the grounds of human rights....), there are plenty of other means to get across a political message
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billium
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Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Probably a good as reason as any for school uniforms. |
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Bones McCracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | has helped sustain the balance of views which is at the heart of British broadcasting |
You can't be serious.
The BBC is heavily left-wing biased, and that's one of the reasons you have such a nanny state and are continuously sliding downhill into chav-land.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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Bones McCracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| billium wrote: | | Probably a good as reason as any for school uniforms. |
Yes. What better way to drive home the point of authoritarian collectivism: that your individuality is a problem and that you must submit and conform.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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John-Boy
Guru
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 440
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | The BBC is heavily left-wing biased |
Nothing left wing here
| Quote: | | BBC children’s programmes should include more lesbian, gay and bisexual people, a report of the corporation recommends. |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | has helped sustain the balance of views which is at the heart of British broadcasting |
You can't be serious.
The BBC is heavily left-wing biased, and that's one of the reasons you have such a nanny state and are continuously sliding downhill into chav-land. |
go check uk law and reread what I wrote
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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | Big fucking deal. Do you have any idea how much labor unions spent last year on political influence? Approximate $4 Billion (according to the Department of Labor). Ooooh! Tens of millions of dollars! And look at your sources: some dude from the "Center for Left-Wing Asshattery" or something (the "Violence Policy Center is a fucking lobby themselves, son, and gets nearly a Billion dollars a year in revenue from where? Not grass roots, but where?). Unsuck the propaganda hose.
You may also not be aware that 55% of the corporate "Super Pac" spending is done on behalf of Democrat candidates.
Also, you're just proving my point: re-read my post before my last one where I talked about the left-wing arm-flailing and propaganda about the NRA being a "corporate lobby". The NRA is as grass-roots as it gets. I was about to accuse you of trolling again, but now I think you actually buy into this crap. |
the article was printed by that left wing bastion business insider.
you can't compare the NRA (one organization) to all unions. that makes no sense.
I don't fault the NRA for tapping into the buyer's market that is your govt, but it is chalked full of stupid ideas, whether or not four million nuts support them. the nra has even backed off from some sensible gun legislation. |
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | has helped sustain the balance of views which is at the heart of British broadcasting |
You can't be serious.
The BBC is heavily left-wing biased, and that's one of the reasons you have such a nanny state and are continuously sliding downhill into chav-land. |
canada looks warm and sunny compared to britain. |
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | The usual meaningless rant from BK faced with uncomfortable truths.
How The Gun Industry Funnels Tens Of Millions Of Dollars To The NRA
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1#ixzz2RCecv2yN
| Quote: | "Today's NRA is a virtual subsidiary of the gun industry," said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center. "While the NRA portrays itself as protecting the 'freedom' of individual gun owners, it's actually working to protect the freedom of the gun industry to manufacture and sell virtually any weapon or accessory."
There are two reasons for the industry support for the NRA. The first is that the organization develops and maintains a market for their products. The second, less direct function, is to absorb criticism in the event of PR crises for the gun industry.
It's possible that without the NRA, people would be protesting outside of Glock, SIG Sauer and Freedom Group — the makers of the guns used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre — and dragging the CEOs in front of cameras and Congress. That is certainly what happened to tobacco executives when their products continued killing people.
Notoriously, tobacco executives even attempted to form their own version of the NRA in 1993, seeing the inherent benefit to the industry that such an effort would have. Philip Morris bankrolled the National Smokers Alliance, a group that never quite had the groundswell of support the industry wanted.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1#ixzz2RCeBbDZh
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OMG! They are lobbying! Just like Planned Parenthood, an organization that actually and literally does have blood and death on their hands!
crime dog, you really are a partisan tool. I do not recall too many people more closed minded than you.
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Bones McCracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | the article was printed by that left wing bastion business insider.
you can't compare the NRA (one organization) to all unions. that makes no sense. |
Sure I can, and it makes perfect sense. The right to bear arms is just important an issue as fair labor practices. The NRA just happens to be effectively centralized, whereas the labor unions are not.
| juniper wrote: | | I don't fault the NRA for tapping into the buyer's market that is your govt, but it is chalked full of stupid ideas, whether or not four million nuts support them. the nra has even backed off from some sensible gun legislation. |
The expression is "chock-full", not "chalked full". If you're going to live in England you owe it to the natives to learn the language.
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| patrix_neo wrote: | The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it. |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 763
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | juniper wrote: | the article was printed by that left wing bastion business insider.
you can't compare the NRA (one organization) to all unions. that makes no sense. |
Sure I can, and it makes perfect sense. The right to bear arms is just important an issue as fair labor practices. The NRA just happens to be effectively centralized, whereas the labor unions are not. |
I am not saying one is more important than the other. I am saying that you are comparing one organization to several.
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| juniper wrote: | | I don't fault the NRA for tapping into the buyer's market that is your govt, but it is chalked full of stupid ideas, whether or not four million nuts support them. the nra has even backed off from some sensible gun legislation. |
The expression is "chock-full", not "chalked full". If you're going to live in England you owe it to the natives to learn the language. |
Indeed. But have you heard the natives speak their language? |
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: |
OMG! They are lobbying! Just like Planned Parenthood, an organization that actually and literally does have blood and death on their hands!
crime dog, you really are a partisan tool. I do not recall too many people more closed minded than you. |
democracy for sale! |
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Darth Marley
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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@juniper
And look at the cost... this isn't just some rich mofo getting cozy with the legislature in order to get even richer. This is a price paid in blood. |
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juniper
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | @juniper
And look at the cost... this isn't just some rich mofo getting cozy with the legislature in order to get even richer. This is a price paid in blood. |
Oh. they suck.
However, the system isn't broken because the NRA lobbies congress, its broken because any big organization can do it. Too much money in congress.
With regards to the shirt, offensive or not, you can't ban a shirt with a legal organization on it, especially if it doesn't violate school dress code. The NRA isn't the KKK (the school likely has a policy of no shirts with racist organizations on it). |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Let them debate gun laws as appropriate in class but wearing NRA T-shirts would be offensive to many other pupils - just like wearing a pointy KKK hat would be - and could be disruptive for school discipline. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask pupils to tone it down a bit and respect others with different views.
The absolute last thing you want to do in a school is encourage the extreme, tribal political divisions with which the US is plagued. Plenty time for that later. They're in school to learn, think and open their minds to new ideas. |
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tylerwylie
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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lol
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| Quote: | | It is with people as with trees. The more one seeks to rise into height and light, the more vigorously do ones roots struggle earthward, downward, into the dark, the deep — into evil. |
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warrens
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 231
Location: Don't Tread On Me!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | Let them debate gun laws as appropriate in class but wearing NRA T-shirts would be offensive to many other pupils - just like wearing a pointy KKK hat would be - and could be disruptive for school discipline. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask pupils to tone it down a bit and respect others with different views.
The absolute last thing you want to do in a school is encourage the extreme, tribal political divisions with which the US is plagued. Plenty time for that later. They're in school to learn, think and open their minds to new ideas. |
To f'ing bad, the right of freedom of expression out weighs the right to not be offended. No matter what you say or do, somebody will be offended.
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DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!
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Naib
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Fry wrote: | | “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.” |
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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
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warrens
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Don't Tread On Me!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | Stephen Fry wrote: | | “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.” |
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+++++
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The BIGGER the GOVERNMENT, the smaller the citizen.
DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!
My Bias #1
The best government is the government that governs least. |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 763
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | Let them debate gun laws as appropriate in class but wearing NRA T-shirts would be offensive to many other pupils - just like wearing a pointy KKK hat would be - and could be disruptive for school discipline. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask pupils to tone it down a bit and respect others with different views.
The absolute last thing you want to do in a school is encourage the extreme, tribal political divisions with which the US is plagued. Plenty time for that later. They're in school to learn, think and open their minds to new ideas. |
but where does it end and who decides?
I think this sums it up for me.
| Noam Chomsky wrote: |
If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. |
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | Let them debate gun laws as appropriate in class but wearing NRA T-shirts would be offensive to many other pupils - just like wearing a pointy KKK hat would be - and could be disruptive for school discipline. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask pupils to tone it down a bit and respect others with different views.
The absolute last thing you want to do in a school is encourage the extreme, tribal political divisions with which the US is plagued. Plenty time for that later. They're in school to learn, think and open their minds to new ideas. |
You do realize your second paragraph is a total contradiction of the first.
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | Let them debate gun laws as appropriate in class but wearing NRA T-shirts would be offensive to many other pupils - just like wearing a pointy KKK hat would be - and could be disruptive for school discipline. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask pupils to tone it down a bit and respect others with different views.
The absolute last thing you want to do in a school is encourage the extreme, tribal political divisions with which the US is plagued. Plenty time for that later. They're in school to learn, think and open their minds to new ideas. |
but where does it end and who decides?
I think this sums it up for me.
| Noam Chomsky wrote: |
If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. |
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pretty much. I had to explain to my wife last night why that lass who made derogatory tweet was not going to get charge. I might not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it
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Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | but where does it end and who decides? |
Teachers should decide what pupils wear and how they should conduct themselves in school. What happens when a couple of religious nutcases come in with an anti-abortion T-shirt, then the next day half-a-dozen others come in with pro-abortion T-shirts, and then the day after that half the school is at war with the other half.
It's better for the pupils if they are discouraged from taking up dogmatic positions. Once they get identified as a gun nut or whatever, and are forced to defend their noisily expressed opinions in the school yard, it will tend to make them even more entrenched in their views. It will be harder to backtrack later on once they (hopefully) learn better. |
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Darth Marley
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| So, armbands to protest war can be banned, lest they offend the offspring of soldiers? |
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