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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Are you telling me there's really a disease: cruciferous spongiform encephalopathy? I thought you were making a joke (i.e., "veggies on the brain").
I figured out umbelliferous, I just wasn't sure what the rest was, and what the combined result was supposed to indicate. Mine was a joke, I was just trying to understand what yours was.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Are you telling me there's really a disease: cruciferous spongiform encephalopathy? I thought you were making a joke (i.e., "veggies on the brain").
I figured out umbelliferous, I just wasn't sure what the rest was, and what the combined result was supposed to indicate. Mine was a joke, I was just trying to understand what yours was.

It was a repetition of the same play on words, but with different words. You pjp'd yourself. :o :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is the part of the word omnivores that is not clear or you don't like? I don't see anything someone should be ashamed of being omnivores, it is just a simple harmless word that describes a particular nutritional habit/capability.
well the thing that I don't like is:

an example: lets consider sex relations between humans, you can think of those who can fuck everything: little children, beautiful woman, NY yankies, asians or europeans and then you consider "normal" men: (it's not "normal" but normal in my opinion :) ) normal men can fuck beautiful woman and nothing else (no offense against gays, but a hardcore offense against child-fuckers) therefore normal man are restricted but it's good to be restricted and I don't want to be able to fuck everything because I don't like it and it's also very very wrong...

so if you can eat everything it seems like an advantage but its actually not and there are more important things then "what human xy want to eat this evening"...

(I'm rather pessimistic about humans but obviously I have quite a respect for the ability of humans to do the right thing... I'm not making any progress in solving this contradiction and I'm drunk )
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So on the one side, we have the fact that being omnivorous is one of the things that makes humans so adaptable and increases the survivability of our species, and on the other hand, it is arguably immoral.

I'd first like to hear someone more clearly articulate what's immoral about eating meat. Also, if animals (or certain animals) have the right to not be killed and eaten, I'd like to hear someone more clearly articulate what rights to do have in general, and why. I have my own ideas about this, but I'd like to hear what others think.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

I'd first like to hear someone more clearly articulate what's immoral about eating meat. Also, if animals (or certain animals) have the right to not be killed and eaten, I'd like to hear someone more clearly articulate what rights to do have in general, and why. I have my own ideas about this, but I'd like to hear what others think.


You mean those cute, smart, furry animals so perfectly depicted in Disney animated movies? How can you make a salami out of babe??? Humans are really beasts!!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So on the one side, we have the fact that being omnivorous is one of the things that makes humans so adaptable and increases the survivability of our species, and on the other hand, it is arguably immoral.

Yes thats true and for example my dog must eat meat or he gets sick. But apart from extreme situations like this airplane crash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster#Cannibalism (and they had to go a step further and eating there dead friends/family members) there is no reason to eat "everything". Of course this ability maybe was important to survive but today it isn't necessary. So in this sense we are privileged to decide what to eat.

Quote:
I'd first like to hear someone more clearly articulate what's immoral about eating meat. Also, if animals (or certain animals) have the right to not be killed and eaten, I'd like to hear someone more clearly articulate what rights to do have in general, and why. I have my own ideas about this, but I'd like to hear what others think.


Thats a difficult task, but I'll give it a try: (lets focus on ethics and disregard "logical" arguments like "meat production produces C02 emissions" because although truth I don't like such reasons because they miss the point and lets disregard extreme situations where other laws hold)

First I think we are all born in this world not knowing why and although there is much evil stuff going on we can observe beautiful things like nature and many different species like a giraffe, tiger or an eagle etc. So "it just feels wrong" to kill such creators and I think everyone know this feeling (which is probably impossible to describe accurate)

I think every animal that has the ability to feel pain or to have a conscious has the right to not be killed and eaten similar to humans. I remember the scene in Terminator 2 where Schwarzenegger asks John Connor why he can't just walk around and kill people and John can't explain it. Maybe ethics is too hard for our reason so we can just say: its obviously wrong. So when you eat meat you kill some creature just to have a nice meal which is obviously wrong. Well maybe you can say what you think and I hope you can do it better then me, if you can I would be very impressed :)

Another point is that maybe kill one pig is not as bad as a whole industry which is focused on efficiency. I always wondered why the nazis are considered as the "most evil killers", more evil then inquisition. Maybe the answer is because they had a industry to kill people. (of course the inquisitors maybe had done they same if they had the technology)

The babe thing is something we shouldn't consider too, because there are some people (mostly girls I guess) that eat meat and use senseless cosmetics that were tested on animals and then say: oh, what a cute little rabbit. But that doesn't mean "babe" shouldn't have the right not to be killed. The director of babe (or maybe it was an actor) turned vegan after the movie because he studied the meat industry for the movie... and I also like ugly animals :)

btw, noob question, how do you make this link-shortcuts?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I'd first like to hear someone more clearly articulate what's immoral about eating meat. Also, if animals (or certain animals) have the right to not be killed and eaten, I'd like to hear someone more clearly articulate what rights to do have in general, and why. I have my own ideas about this, but I'd like to hear what others think.


I don't think it's immoral, per se. But I do have empathethic response to cute furry animals. I don't give shit about reptiles, for examples. Or bugs. I also don't feel much sympathy for fish. Fuck fish, they eat their own young, they are assholes.

Also big fucking bears charging at you. Fuck those. If bears could understand words, I'd say "do I charge at you asshole, and steal your food? No. Get the fuck out of here."

That's about emotional side.

On more cerebral side, I am not so sure that GOD put us on Earth to lord over all things and creatures, so we can fuck with them any way we chose. Meaning, in bigger context, I don't think it's a good idea to kill everything, and get to the point of eating some brown goo for decades, because, chances are, someone is gonna go ballistic and say "fuck this fucking goo, I'm gonna have me a toddler". I also don't think we should eat some chemical goo, and I imagine I can taste the difference between a stressed out cannibalistic cow and deer meat.

As for moral side of things, I think that if you are gonna eat meat, you should hunt and kill your own. It gives you that understanding of where the meat comes from, and what the life is all about. Much better than being a mcgruff, zapping on your iphone, eating a cheeseburger and thinking you know shit. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think it's immoral, per se. But I do have empathethic response to cute furry animals. I don't give shit about reptiles, for examples. Or bugs. I also don't feel much sympathy for fish. Fuck fish, they eat their own young, they are assholes.

Also big fucking bears charging at you. Fuck those. If bears could understand words, I'd say "do I charge at you asshole, and steal your food? No. Get the fuck out of here."

That's about emotional side.

I have to admit that I also don't give a shit about bugs and spiders etc I even hate those insects (but I also believe that they aren't as conscious as a dog and don't feel pain). I've heard that fish aren't feeling any pain, don't know if this is bullshit, but I don't think they are assholes per se :)

But bears are really cool animals, I don't understand why you don't like them... very impressive and beautiful animals..! and beside extreme situations I think it is immoral per se

Quote:
On more cerebral side, I am not so sure that GOD put us on Earth to lord over all things and creatures, so we can fuck with them any way we chose.

No definitely not, one of the main faults of the three big monotheistic religions. In Hinduism/buddhism they see this quite different..

Quote:
Meaning, in bigger context, I don't think it's a good idea to kill everything, and get to the point of eating some brown goo for decades, because, chances are, someone is gonna go ballistic and say "fuck this fucking goo, I'm gonna have me a toddler". I also don't think we should eat some chemical goo, and I imagine I can taste the difference between a stressed out cannibalistic cow and deer meat.


yes thats why they try to calm down the animals before slaughtering them (I've heard with classic music for example) so that they don't run on adrenalin too much. First I thought this is a "human" thought (indeed canting, but at least the right attitude) but its done because the meat is less tender and of lower quality otherwise.. :roll:

Quote:
As for moral side of things, I think that if you are gonna eat meat, you should hunt and kill your own. It gives you that understanding of where the meat comes from, and what the life is all about.

totally agree with you on this point..(except that I think that its wrong to hunt and kill).. many people wouldn't even touch meat if they would know from where its coming (not even for ethic reasons but because there will be blood and ugly organs etc... not quite the spiced steak :) )

Quote:
Much better than being a mcgruff, zapping on your iphone, eating a cheeseburger and thinking you know shit. :)

Don't know what he has posted or not posted, but I like his avatar.. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
But bears are really cool animals, I don't understand why you don't like them... very impressive and beautiful animals..! and beside extreme situations I think it is immoral per se


Bears are beautiful, but they are assholes. Going through your freezer when you're about to finally get down with that girl in a tent on a hiking trip. No sex and no sandwiches. Assholes. :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see.. :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
consider "normal" men: (it's not "normal" but normal in my opinion :) ) normal men can fuck beautiful woman and nothing else


Questions that came to my mind:
normal men are all beautiful? If also normal women could only fuck beautiful men probably humanity had already ceased to exists.
You consider yourself beautiful? Why should beautiful women fuck with you?
Are you a misogynist?
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?


My mental tourettes wants me to write something about women, furry, animal and Italy, but I must resist! :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?


My mental tourettes wants me to write something about women, furry, animal and Italy, but I must resist! :lol:

Write freely, no problem. It just enforces my opinion about people that loves animals and disrespect human and plants :-)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Prenj wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?


My mental tourettes wants me to write something about women, furry, animal and Italy, but I must resist! :lol:

Write freely, no problem. It just enforces my opinion about people that loves animals and disrespect human and plants :-)


But you see, we are animals, and some are furrier than others. 8) Aaah the good old days when women were furry, and dicks were proper and it didn't bother them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Prenj wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?


My mental tourettes wants me to write something about women, furry, animal and Italy, but I must resist! :lol:

Write freely, no problem. It just enforces my opinion about people that loves animals and disrespect human and plants :-)


But you see, we are animals, and some are furrier than others. 8) Aaah the good old days when women were furry, and dicks were proper and it didn't bother them.

Would you kill them?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Would you kill them?


If I was hungry. Not for sport.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
normal men are all beautiful?

I guess you know my answer, but if you want me to write it: No

Quote:
If also normal women could only fuck beautiful men probably humanity had already ceased to exists.

yes probably...

Quote:
You consider yourself beautiful?

well that depends, sometimes I think that I'm good looking, sometimes I think I am ugly white trash :) I have some things that I like about my body and some things that I don't like, but I'm sure you don't wanna know more :lol:

Quote:
Why should beautiful women fuck with you?

I never was a good seller..

Quote:
Are you a misogynist?

No.

Quote:
Ugly women are more or less valuable than little furry animals?

It would be quite complicated and very elaborated to explain you my moral system in a way that you don't misunderstand it (I've made the experience that even if I talked with people face to face they've misunderstood me, and I misunderstood them). So my only answer is that an ugly woman is not less valuable than a beautiful women (maybe she is in a purely sexual context :lol: )

Quote:
Write freely, no problem. It just enforces my opinion about people that loves animals and disrespect human and plants :-)

I probably know what sort of people you mean but I think Prenj is definitely not one of them (and I'm not one of them too). Moreover I don't think that anyone that is at least not totally stupid would think that: animals are good, plants and humans are scum... :roll:

So sorry that I've used the term beautiful, but I think you know what I wanted to say :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Are you telling me there's really a disease: cruciferous spongiform encephalopathy? I thought you were making a joke (i.e., "veggies on the brain").
I figured out umbelliferous, I just wasn't sure what the rest was, and what the combined result was supposed to indicate. Mine was a joke, I was just trying to understand what yours was.

It was a repetition of the same play on words, but with different words. You pjp'd yourself. :o :P
Not sure what that is, so I guess that means I've now also been BK'd. Mine "translated" to Mad Vegetarian Disease (from Mad Cow Disease / BSE).
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Are you telling me there's really a disease: cruciferous spongiform encephalopathy? I thought you were making a joke (i.e., "veggies on the brain").
I figured out umbelliferous, I just wasn't sure what the rest was, and what the combined result was supposed to indicate. Mine was a joke, I was just trying to understand what yours was.

It was a repetition of the same play on words, but with different words. You pjp'd yourself. :o :P
Not sure what that is, so I guess that means I've now also been BK'd. Mine "translated" to Mad Vegetarian Disease (from Mad Cow Disease / BSE).

Yeah, and I got your hard-to-get joke that nobody else got, and I was going along with it (hence my response, which was not only to demonstrate that I got it, but to provide an additional sample to help others derive their interpretive algorithm and also enjoy the humor).

But, unfortunately, you couldn't interpret my additional sample, despite having yourself created the too-difficult-for-most-to-follow algorithm. That's why I said you pjp'd yourself. :lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol. I understood that it was a continuation, I just couldn't figure out the medical condition to which you were referring.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:

I probably know what sort of people you mean but I think Prenj is definitely not one of them (and I'm not one of them too). Moreover I don't think that anyone that is at least not totally stupid would think that: animals are good, plants and humans are scum... :roll:


Unfortunately people like that do live around us, maybe sitting at a table of a bar sipping a vegan milkshake and discussing animal rights while an homeless dies of starvation right next to their table......

LoTeK wrote:

So sorry that I've used the term beautiful, but I think you know what I wanted to say :wink:

I was just trying to annoy you a bit :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately people like that do live around us, maybe sitting at a table of a bar sipping a vegan milkshake and discussing animal rights while an homeless dies of starvation right next to their table......

yes of course but I bet there are people among us that maybe hate animals and humans and sitting at a bar table, eating a cow from factory farming, sipping a drink with human blood and save a dehydrated plant while a dog is dying slowly because he got venomed by them, or like I said earlier that Hitler didn't die 1945 but got on a submarine and drove to "Neuschwabenland" at antarctica from where the nazis already went to the moon 1945, building a secret base on the dark side of the moon :lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Unfortunately people like that do live around us, maybe sitting at a table of a bar sipping a vegan milkshake and discussing animal rights while an homeless dies of starvation right next to their table......


I know a guy like that, he went from being a drunken asshole in high school to even worse hipster-hippy, marathon-running, organic, combucha-chugging, steven-colbert-worshipping, fake-lefty minsanthropic cruel asshole tit. He's preaching how wrong everybody is, while doing nothing about it himself, since his carbon footprint is that of a small african village, but it's ok cos he composts. :roll:

Or as Joe Rogan puts it:
Quote:
The hipster saying "who cares, you're dead anyway" is the dude in the group most capable of murdering and eating you in an emergency.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mentioned this guy already, but I don't remember in which thread...

In exchange I know a lot of people that are soooooo moral and ethical, so human-rights and pacifistic, they wouldn't even beat a childfucker and even so they eat meat from factory farming and don't see anything bad about this...
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Chickens farmed for meat are called broiler chickens. Chickens will naturally live for 6 or more years, but broiler chickens typically take less than 6 weeks to reach slaughter size.[25] A free range or organic meat chicken will usually be slaughtered at about 14 weeks of age.


Kill them at 14 weeks of age is a lot more human than at 6 weeks ............ a totally different story.

Usually I prefer 'km 0' products, mainly because I prefer to support the local economy.
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