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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1240
Location: ID, USA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| If you must throw legislation around, alcohol is a more efficient target, assuming the goal of saving lives. |
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big dave
n00b
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 0
Location: land of first world problems
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | So what was your point? |
that instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | If you must throw legislation around, alcohol is a more efficient target, assuming the goal of saving lives. |
Logic fail. They are orthogonal. |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| big dave wrote: | | instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
Er, OK. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1240
Location: ID, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | wswartzendruber wrote: | | If you must throw legislation around, alcohol is a more efficient target, assuming the goal of saving lives. |
Logic fail. They are orthogonal. |
Communication fail.
What two entities are you referring to? And how do you interpret them as being orthogonal to each other? |
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sikpuppy
n00b
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | big dave wrote: | | instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
Er, OK. |
Gun owners have evolved to the point of being a race. The next step is opposable big toes so they can shoot four guns simultaneously, or two using their feet to reload. |
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big dave
n00b
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 0
Location: land of first world problems
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sikpuppy wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | big dave wrote: | | instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
Er, OK. |
Gun owners have evolved to the point of being a race. The next step is opposable big toes so they can shoot four guns simultaneously, or two using their feet to reload. |
nonsense. gun control is racist against blacks and other minorities.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/gun-control-fails-say-statistics-from-gun-control-advocates/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice
i'm very offended that any of you would say i shouldn't be allowed to defend myself, and instead, i should have to entrust my own life to racist police departments who hate me simply for the color of my skin. that's what makes you gun control supporters racist. |
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sikpuppy
n00b
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| big dave wrote: | | sikpuppy wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | big dave wrote: | | instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
Er, OK. |
Gun owners have evolved to the point of being a race. The next step is opposable big toes so they can shoot four guns simultaneously, or two using their feet to reload. |
nonsense. gun control is racist against blacks and other minorities.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/gun-control-fails-say-statistics-from-gun-control-advocates/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice
i'm very offended that any of you would say i shouldn't be allowed to defend myself, and instead, i should have to entrust my own life to racist police departments who hate me simply for the color of my skin. that's what makes you gun control supporters racist. |
Well, if you think that's what I was saying then your comprehension skills need some work. And if that's what you think then guns aren't going to save you from what is most likely a persecution complex. |
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Bigun
Advocate
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 2055
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.wral.com/private-gun-sales-at-gun-show-on-hold-after-three-hurt-in-accidental-shooting/12000843/
What a dipstick. When I plan on taking a firearm to a gunshow, I make triple fucking sure that the firearm is empty before I put it in it's case. Gun safety is no joke and each one needs to be treated as if it is loaded at all times, real basic stuff that I was taught when I was about 6 or 7. The guy got what he deserved and I feel sorry for the other two caught in that dipshit's fire.
In other news: 5 hour energy drinks kill 13, let's ban em', yeah buddy! [/redneck]
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"It's ok, they might have guns but we have flowers." - Perpetual Victim |
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Bigun
Advocate
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 2055
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Same level of stupidity, nearly got what he deserved.
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"It's ok, they might have guns but we have flowers." - Perpetual Victim |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | What two entities are you referring to? And how do you interpret them as being orthogonal to each other? |
Action to reduce deaths caused by alcohol has nothing whatsoever to do with action to reduce deaths by shooting. One does not preclude the other. Why do I even need to explain that? |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1240
Location: ID, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'll try again:
If you view legislation as a preferable measure for saving lives, you will save many more by targeting the availability of alcohol to the general public. |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Assuming that were true, how is this factoid relevant to gun control? |
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | Assuming that were true, how is this factoid relevant to gun control? |
It is only relevant to your altruistic desire to save the most lives.
If that is really your desire.
I think it is because gun control advocates are racist.
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The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
George Orwell |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Attempts to reduce alcohol-related deaths and tempts to reduce deaths by shooting are... wait for it...
ORTHOGONAL. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1240
Location: ID, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, let's try something else. Why is gun control necessary? |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 763
Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| big dave wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | So what was your point? |
that instead of attacking massive causes of death, you choose to be racist instead. you don't care about actual death tolls. you only care about being racist. |
cancer, car deaths, aids, drinking driving are all bad things. No one is saying we should drop fighting all that and start taking peoples guns away.
but it is part of the problem. we are trying to deal with it. |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Okay, let's try something else. Why is gun control necessary? |
To impose tyranny. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1240
Location: ID, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | cancer, car deaths, aids, drinking driving are all bad things. No one is saying we should drop fighting all that and start taking peoples guns away.
but it is part of the problem. we are trying to deal with it. |
Let us assert that people dying of unnatural causes is bad, and that steps should be taken to prevent that from happening. Let us define and isolate two factors in this scope:
1. Deaths from assault weapons.
2. Deaths from intoxicated driving.
I restrict Point #1 to assault weapons as that is what is being considered at the U.S. Federal level. Now let's look at some quick numbers:
1. Deaths from any type of rifle in 2011: ~367
2. Deaths from DUI accidents in 2011: 9,878
My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 763
Location: EU
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | juniper wrote: | cancer, car deaths, aids, drinking driving are all bad things. No one is saying we should drop fighting all that and start taking peoples guns away.
but it is part of the problem. we are trying to deal with it. |
Let us assert that people dying of unnatural causes is bad, and that steps should be taken to prevent that from happening. Let us define and isolate two factors in this scope:
1. Deaths from assault weapons.
2. Deaths from intoxicated driving.
I restrict Point #1 to assault weapons as that is what is being considered at the U.S. Federal level. Now let's look at some quick numbers:
1. Deaths from any type of rifle in 2011: ~367
2. Deaths from DUI accidents in 2011: 9,878
My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
I wouldn't be just for banning those things. I would say ban all firearms.
Two can play that game. Deaths from driving while drinking 18 year old whiskey? ~ 300. I win!
I don't know how you plan to win this numbers game. What are they? There are 12000 HOMICIDES (that's intentional deaths. Not accidents, but intentional deaths), some number of suicides and a whole bunch of accidents from firearms. Total is over 30,000. In any case, while DUI deaths suck, they are not intentional (the killing part at least).
Last edited by juniper on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Prenj
n00b
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | juniper wrote: | cancer, car deaths, aids, drinking driving are all bad things. No one is saying we should drop fighting all that and start taking peoples guns away.
but it is part of the problem. we are trying to deal with it. |
Let us assert that people dying of unnatural causes is bad, and that steps should be taken to prevent that from happening. Let us define and isolate two factors in this scope:
1. Deaths from assault weapons.
2. Deaths from intoxicated driving.
I restrict Point #1 to assault weapons as that is what is being considered at the U.S. Federal level. Now let's look at some quick numbers:
1. Deaths from any type of rifle in 2011: ~367
2. Deaths from DUI accidents in 2011: 9,878
My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
Yes but you forget the issue of dying from what is percieved as "chance occurence" and dying because another human takes your life. The other one is clearly worse, psychologically. But then when you awake to the fact that somebody can kill or harm you without actually shooting you, but by manipulating your predicament, it gets even creepier, because you don't know how to defend from that.
Without being aware of the full spectrum of it, one cannot make good judgement, and I think that is mcgruffs problem, because he has been conditioned that the government is unconditionally good. He cannot process the perspective of those who disagree, and argues semantics.
Some governments ARE better then the others, not perfect, but on the whole, good. Some are worse. The sleight of hand lies in the fact that Obama has BRANDED himself as good, when objectively he is the same shit as GWB was, and numerically, worse.
People get caught in the linguistics. After all, wasn't East Germany officially known as Deutsche Demokratische Republik? |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
Yeah. Only one classroom of kids were slaughtered at Sandy Hook. A mere blip.
How many would you say have to die in order to matter enough to trouble our legislators? Ten classes? A hundred? |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 685
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | wswartzendruber wrote: | | My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
Yeah. Only one classroom of kids were slaughtered at Sandy Hook. A mere blip. |
You must be new here. NBC Admits No Assault Rifle Used At Sandy Hook.
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People Of Love
Kindness Evokes Kindness
Peace Emits Positive Energy |
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 240
Location: West Bank of the Coast Fork
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | wswartzendruber wrote: | | My assertion is that our focus on assault weapons is highly disproportionate to their impact on human life. |
Yeah. Only one classroom of kids were slaughtered at Sandy Hook. A mere blip.
How many would you say have to die in order to matter enough to trouble our legislators? Ten classes? A hundred? |
The equivalent of a Sandy Hook takes place every two and a half weeks in Chicago, but you could care less about the Black kids because gun control advocates are racist.
And all your racist posts are getting distasteful.
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The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
George Orwell |
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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I have very, very little patience for anyone dicking around with the truth of the Sandy Hook massacre so you can cut that shit out right now.
Go and read the report made by the medical examiner, Dr. H. Wayne Carver. Everyone whom he examined were shot at close range multiple times with the Bushmaster.
Last edited by McGruff on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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