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erm67
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Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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Location: somewhere in Renziland.
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 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: Vaping and E-Smoking |
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http://vapingguides.com/blog/
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/
| Quote: | It's a PV or personal vaporizer, a personal inhaler to substitute for a cigarette. Battery-powered. I've switched to an alternative way of smoking and now I use this. What you can see is basically steam, it's a flavored vapor with nicotine if you want. You can get coffee flavor, chocolate, strawberry, whatever. Or tobacco of course. Also called an electronic cigarette but there's no smoke so no hazard.
As far as we know it's more or less harmless as all the ingredients - well, apart from the coffee flavor - are in medical inhalers. No danger to me or you. |
That's what I got from Santa Claus for being a good guy (+ my christmas grass  ), so far it is working, I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it.
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pjp
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Vaping and E-Smoking |
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| erm67 wrote: | | I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it. |
Congratulations. From what I've heard from various friends and co-workers, the chemical addiction is "easy" to kick, it's the physical addiction which is difficult. Good luck!
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erm67
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Vaping and E-Smoking |
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| pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it. |
Congratulations. From what I've heard from various friends and co-workers, the chemical addiction is "easy" to kick, it's the physical addiction which is difficult. Good luck! |
They biggest problem is friends that smoke, I usually end up smoking first passively and than light one ....
Hopefully it is less dangerous than real tobacco.
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petrjanda
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I personally bought this vaporizer last year http://silversurfervap.com/index.php
Used it for tobacco and grass. Slowly winded me self off nicotine and don't vape tobacco now at all.
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Old School
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Stopped tobacco cold turkey almost six months ago. Successful so far.
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erm67
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | I personally bought this vaporizer last year http://silversurfervap.com/index.php
Used it for tobacco and grass. Slowly winded me self off nicotine and don't vape tobacco now at all. |
Different kind of vaporizer .... mine is legal (for the moment) almost everywhere:
http://observer.com/2012/10/puff-the-magic-cigarette-new-yorkers-vaping-up-a-storm-with-e-cigs/
| Quote: | | Johnny Depp has switched. So have Kate Moss, Leonardo DiCaprio, Bradley Cooper, Robert Pattinson, Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan. Lady Gaga goes both ways, and it’s been reported (though unconfirmed) that Ryan Seacrest might be in the closet about his preference. Then there was that infamous moment when Katherine Heigl actually did it on Letterman, “I bet I’m freaking y’all out right now!” she told her stunned host. “Someone better call the P.C. police!” |
Actually replaces tobacco smoke with smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution (with water and nicotine).
And probably it is not a way to quit smoking but a way to keep inhaling nicotine without the risks involved with tobacco (or less risks) ...
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys....
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petrjanda
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys.... |
That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it.
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pjp
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution |
Isn't that anti-freeze?
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sikpuppy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution |
Isn't that anti-freeze? |
Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| sikpuppy wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution |
Isn't that anti-freeze? |
Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks. |
People have been known to poison animals, most notably cats, with that stuff.
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sikpuppy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | People have been known to poison animals, most notably cats, with that stuff. |
Probably a better way to go than internal bleeding from rat poison. |
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Prenj
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Just quit smoking |
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Muso
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Just start eating pills and small paper squares in front of "squares".
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erm67
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: |
That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it. |
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect
| energyman76b wrote: | | so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys.... |
Not Chineese, mine is made in Italy (since 2007), but there are lots of companies that produce and sell them in the EU and US. In italy liquids that contains tobacco extracts (carcinogenic) are illegal like most chinese liquids....
| sikpuppy wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution |
Isn't that anti-freeze? |
Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks. |
Not toxic, is methabolized like alcool, Big Tobacco companies put it in tobacco as well to make it 'smoke' better:-)
| Quote: | | Propylene glycol is considered Generally Recognized As Safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and it is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and preservative in food and for tobacco products. |
There have been lots of studies recently, and it compares favorably with tobacco, the toxicity of nicotine is the same, but without all the toxic (and carcinogenic and mutagenic) components of tobacco... Only long term effects on health are unknown, but short term well are studied.
Basically the alternatives to keep having nicotine are:
smoke tobacco that is universally known as carcinogenic
smoke propylene glycol added with nicotine that in the last 5-6 years did not show carcinogenicity
Of course quitting is the better solution but did not worked so far.
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petrjanda
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: |
That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it. |
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect
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Correct me if im wrong, but tobacco is carcinogenic when smoked, but vaping doesn't combust the material so it shouldn't be carcinogenic, right?
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erm67
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: |
That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it. |
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect
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Correct me if im wrong, but tobacco is carcinogenic when smoked, but vaping doesn't combust the material so it shouldn't be carcinogenic, right? |
Tobacco chewers get cancer, tobacco is always carcinogenic .....
BTW. regarding the other kind of vaporizer, weren't you flying choppers? Here pilots have the hairs tested for drugs twice a year ... a friend of mine had to completely quit or lose the licence ...
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Clad in Sky
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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What erm said. You can get cancer from chewing tobacco. The really nasty stuff is in the smoke, though.
Nicotine is very toxic as well, but not carcinogenic.
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petrjanda
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: |
BTW. regarding the other kind of vaporizer, weren't you flying choppers? Here pilots have the hairs tested for drugs twice a year ... a friend of mine had to completely quit or lose the licence ... |
I don't have a job, I'm not flying, so I don't care right now.
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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there is no proven connection between snuff tobacco and cancer. Just saying.
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erm67
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/smokeless
| Quote: |
Are there harmful chemicals in smokeless tobacco?
Yes. There is no safe form of tobacco. At least 28 chemicals in smokeless tobacco have been found to cause cancer (1). The most harmful chemicals in smokeless tobacco are tobacco-specific nitrosamines, which are formed during the growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. The level of tobacco-specific nitrosamines varies by product. Scientists have found that the nitrosamine level is directly related to the risk of cancer.
In addition to a variety of nitrosamines, other cancer-causing substances in smokeless tobacco include polonium–210 (a radioactive element found in tobacco fertilizer) and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (also known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) (1).
Does smokeless tobacco cause cancer?
Yes. Smokeless tobacco causes oral cancer, esophageal cancer, and pancreatic cancer (1).
Does smokeless tobacco cause other diseases?
Yes. Using smokeless tobacco may also cause heart disease, gum disease, and oral lesions other than cancer, such as leukoplakia (precancerous white patches in the mouth) (1).
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.snuffstuff.ch/schnupftabak_gesundheit_de.cfm
| Quote: |
Der Konsum von Schnupftabak allein stellt kein nachweisbares Erkrankungsrisiko dar. Lediglich die Kombination mit dem Rauchen von Tabak ergibt ein nachweisbares Erkrankungsrisiko.
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| Quote: |
when snuff tobacco, water-extracted snuff tobacco or snuff tobacco enriched with its own
aqueous extract was applied to a surgically created oral canal. However, the increase in
tumour incidence did not achieve statistical significance. In addition, snuff tobacco was
tested for carcinogenicity in rats by topical administration in a surgically-created oral
canal alone or in combination with herpes simplex virus type 1 infection. Squamous-cell
carcinomas of the oral cavity were observed in the group that received both treatments,
but this result was not statistically significant.
Rats given tobacco extracts by gavage showed a statistically non-significantly
increased incidence of forestomach papillomas and lung adenomas, and rats on a vitamin
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not statistically significant.
so yeah, it is harmless. Btw, second quote? From WHO:
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/recentpub/mono89.pdf
IARC Monographs on the Evaluation of
Carcinogenic Risks to Humans
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erm67
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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The second quote is actually interesting:
| Quote: | 3.1 Tobacco
3.1.1 Oral administration
(a)
Mouse
Groups [numbers unspecified] of male Swiss mice, 6–8 weeks of age, were adminis-
tered a tobacco extract (ethanol extract from 50 g tobacco diluted in 10 mL distilled
water) from a commercially available Indian chewing tobacco at a dilution of 1:25 or 1:50
[actual dose unspecified] by oral intubation for 15–20 months. A further group of mice
was fed a diet that contained an extract of 10 g tobacco per 5 kg diet for up to 25 months.
A group of 20 mice received distilled water only by intubation and served as controls.
Administration of the 1:25 dilution was terminated at 18 weeks because of high mortality.
Tumour incidences at 15–20 months were 0/4, 8/15 and 4/10 in the control, 1:50 dilution
and 1:25 dilution groups, respectively. At 21–25 months, 1/20 controls and 8/10 animals
fed tobacco extract in the diet had developed tumours. The types of tumour observed were
lung adenocarcinoma or hepatocellular carcinoma (Bhide et al., 1984b). [The Working
Group noted the incomplete reporting of the distribution of different types of neoplasm.] |
| Quote: | Mouse
Groups of 80 male strain A mice, 3 months of age, were exposed by inhalation to
powdered tobacco leaf on alternate days for 30 months or served as untreated controls. The
incidence of lung tumours (six alveologenic carcinomas, 35 squamous-cell carcinomas and
three ‘malignant adenomas’), leukaemia and hepatocellular carcinoma in animals surviving
to 30 months was: 12/75 [p < 0.001; Fisher’s exact test] and 1/80, 11/75 [p < 0.01; Fisher’s
exact test] and 2/80 and 3/75 and 0/80 in the treated and control groups, respectively
(Hamazaki & Murao, 1969). [The Working Group noted that, while the incidence of lung
tumours and leukaemia in treated animals was significantly increased, the incidence of lung
and liver tumours in the untreated mice was unusually low.] |
Basically you cited the only experiment without cancers cases in the entire monography ....
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | erm67 wrote: | | smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution |
Isn't that anti-freeze? |
I don't think adding anti-freeze to a neurotixin makes things any worse. |
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energyman76b
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2045
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| erm67 wrote: | The second quote is actually interesting:
| Quote: | 3.1 Tobacco
3.1.1 Oral administration
(a)
Mouse
Groups [numbers unspecified] of male Swiss mice, 6–8 weeks of age, were adminis-
tered a tobacco extract (ethanol extract from 50 g tobacco diluted in 10 mL distilled
water) from a commercially available Indian chewing tobacco at a dilution of 1:25 or 1:50
[actual dose unspecified] by oral intubation for 15–20 months. A further group of mice
was fed a diet that contained an extract of 10 g tobacco per 5 kg diet for up to 25 months.
A group of 20 mice received distilled water only by intubation and served as controls.
Administration of the 1:25 dilution was terminated at 18 weeks because of high mortality.
Tumour incidences at 15–20 months were 0/4, 8/15 and 4/10 in the control, 1:50 dilution
and 1:25 dilution groups, respectively. At 21–25 months, 1/20 controls and 8/10 animals
fed tobacco extract in the diet had developed tumours. The types of tumour observed were
lung adenocarcinoma or hepatocellular carcinoma (Bhide et al., 1984b). [The Working
Group noted the incomplete reporting of the distribution of different types of neoplasm.] |
| Quote: | Mouse
Groups of 80 male strain A mice, 3 months of age, were exposed by inhalation to
powdered tobacco leaf on alternate days for 30 months or served as untreated controls. The
incidence of lung tumours (six alveologenic carcinomas, 35 squamous-cell carcinomas and
three ‘malignant adenomas’), leukaemia and hepatocellular carcinoma in animals surviving
to 30 months was: 12/75 [p < 0.001; Fisher’s exact test] and 1/80, 11/75 [p < 0.01; Fisher’s
exact test] and 2/80 and 3/75 and 0/80 in the treated and control groups, respectively
(Hamazaki & Murao, 1969). [The Working Group noted that, while the incidence of lung
tumours and leukaemia in treated animals was significantly increased, the incidence of lung
and liver tumours in the untreated mice was unusually low.] |
Basically you cited the only experiment without cancers cases in the entire monography .... |
oh look, you are unable to read! I was talking about SNUFF.
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