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_______0
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Gentoo guaranteed/maintained non-bloated KDE apps? Reply with quote

hi,

It wasn't easy but in order to have a 'faux-modularized' KDE is to use:

Code:
-consolekit -policykit -udisks -udisks2 -upower -raptor -redland -semantic-desktop -virtuoso


But it wasn't easy to find out about the this combination and came accross by chance deep into a post. Wouldn't it be nice to mention this somewhere in KDE install manual or somewhere? Many ppl use gentoo precisely because of non-bloating approach to running software.

Can gentoo guarantee a non-bloat or modularized KDE for ever? Perhaps add a no-bloat USE flag somewhere in there.

Like systemd was bloating stuff then Gentoo devs decided to create eudev.
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AllenJB
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "no-bloat" use flag would never work. One mans bloat is another mans essential feature.

Additionally, Gentoo can't control what changes upstream make, so there's no way than can guarantee that use flag combination will work in the long run, a "non-bloated KDE" or a "modularized KDE" (and while in theory Gentoo could apply patches, this isn't the Gentoo way)
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
One mans bloat is another mans essential feature.
++

For my work I need (because I actually use) consolekit, policykit, udisks, udisks2, upower, semantic-desktop and virtuoso. And there is nothing "bloated" for me, because I can make very good use on my companies laptop of all this "bloat". On my companies desktop, however, I do not use semantic-desktop and have switched to razor-qt. But as I have to work with removable media all day, udisks is important for me even on the desktop computer.
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_______0
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
AllenJB wrote:
One mans bloat is another mans essential feature.
++

For my work I need (because I actually use) consolekit, policykit, udisks, udisks2, upower, semantic-desktop and virtuoso. And there is nothing "bloated" for me, because I can make very good use on my companies laptop of all this "bloat". On my companies desktop, however, I do not use semantic-desktop and have switched to razor-qt. But as I have to work with removable media all day, udisks is important for me even on the desktop computer.


I never said it's not important. What I want is a fully modularized KDE/Calligra/Libreoffice, in order to have the choice to install in individual basis.

Example, I want to DRAWWRRWW!!! why on earth do I need a sound engine??? In the example of krita:

Code:
!!! The ebuild selected to satisfy ">=media-libs/phonon-4.4.3" has unmet requirements.
- media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1::gentoo USE="(-aqua) -debug -gstreamer -pulseaudio -vlc (-zeitgeist)"


FUFFUFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_______0,

_______0 wrote:
Gentoo guaranteed ...


That's an interesting concept. Please read your warranty statement. :)
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_______0 wrote:
why on earth do I need a sound engine?

It's a bit difficult to avoid phonon, with QT. I tried, but ending up needing to compile QT with the "-phonon" compilation flag (I'm not referring to Gentoo's USE flags), for PyQt4, which is needed by hplip.

So, for the sake of a printer utility, I need a sound mixer :x
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_______0 wrote:
why on earth do I need a sound engine?

PaulBredbury wrote:
So, for the sake of a printer utility, I need a sound mixer :x

What a mess.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo guaranteed/maintained non-bloated KDE apps? Reply with quote

_______0 wrote:
It wasn't easy but in order to have a 'faux-modularized' KDE is to use:

Code:
-consolekit -policykit -udisks -udisks2 -upower -raptor -redland -semantic-desktop -virtuoso


That would not be a good idea since then it would be too easy to wind up with a configuration that is unsupported upstream. That is why consolekit is forced for KDE in the first place. Gentoo is about choice, but the decisions to use an unsupported configuration should not be blind. The user should be forced to do something to show they know what they are doing.
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turtles
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting USE flags there. I started a old wiki page years ago
http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Kde4_minimal
that is badly out of date please take it over.

One approach is to use a different WM and keep KDE apps and get a strigi use flag.

I used JWM with kde stuff for years.
I don't know if KDE / QT embedded are active still with nokia and others.
But I think a more stripped down KDElibs is supported upstream called kde embedded (-nepomuk -strigi)
Kmail would take a patch to eliminate strigi.
I almost built kdelibs without strigi years ago. Using patches.

If someone wants to start a forked kde overlay I would mess around with kmail and kdelibs, I am sure the some folks over at puppy would be interested in a set of kde minimal patches.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo guaranteed/maintained non-bloated KDE apps? Reply with quote

_______0 wrote:

Can gentoo guarantee a non-bloat or modularized KDE for ever? Perhaps add a no-bloat USE flag somewhere in there.

Or perhaps a -freedesktop USE flag. :)
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtles wrote:
One approach is to use a different WM and keep KDE apps and get a strigi use flag.
I guess you'd like razorqt, right? ;)
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turtles
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never herd of it. thanks.
Checking it out http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Razor-qt
Looks like it works like some addons for openbox

My main wm was screen.
I have used kde xfce JWM openbox utouch twm (gnome back in the day) and what ever that one is where you compile the menu in C. Oh and CDE or whatever they had on the SGI Indigo (highschool era).
My preferred is openbox with tint2, udisks-glue with custom stripped down kde apps.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtles wrote:
One approach is to use a different WM and keep KDE apps and get a strigi use flag.
..
I don't know if KDE / QT embedded are active still with nokia and others.
But I think a more stripped down KDElibs is supported upstream called kde embedded (-nepomuk -strigi)

Isn't that basically what you get with -semantic-desktop? FWIW, you can run KDE nicely without the *kit stuff (can't believe that thread hasn't been mentioned, sorry if it's a dupe.)
Quote:
Kmail would take a patch to eliminate strigi.

Now that is good to know: I ended up switching to mutt a couple of months after I turned off semantic-craptop. (It took a while to learn how to tie it in with procmail.)
Quote:
If someone wants to start a forked kde overlay I would mess around with kmail and kdelibs, I am sure the some folks over at puppy would be interested in a set of kde minimal patches.

I'd be interested in those patches as well. We can set up an overlay easily enough, it's more a question of having any patches first.

I don't really like C++ personally, but I know it so can feedback, but not do any of the main coding. I'd start by getting a basic patchset together that solves one specific problem, and does a half-decent job of solving it well, and cleanly (as you said, minimally invasive). Then we can put that in an overlay and you can get feedback from the rest of us, which gives a basis to improve from.

So the question is: what do you feel like fixing most?
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