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John-Boy
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
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Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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Linky
| Quote: | | London has become the first region where white British people have become a minority. |
| Quote: | | The Office for National Statistics said the findings showed a "diverse" and "changing" picture. |
They used 'diverse', bonus points would have been awarded for 'multicultural', empowering
and dynamic.
The hard times of old England .. very hard times.
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Dr.Willy
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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Location: NRW, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | The hard times of old England .. very hard times. |
How so? |
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energyman76b
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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and the best thing, he has nobody to blame but himself.
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| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| John-Boy wrote: | Linky
| Quote: | | London has become the first region where white British people have become a minority. |
| Quote: | | The Office for National Statistics said the findings showed a "diverse" and "changing" picture. |
They used 'diverse', bonus points would have been awarded for 'multicultural', empowering
and dynamic.
The hard times of old England .. very hard times. |
meh. more than half of Toronto is born outside of Canada long ago compared to 37% in London now. Surely a worldly outwardly looking people such as the brits can handle it. but, that's not the issue. The issue is integrating people into British society, and for some reason it doesn't seem to go as smoothly here. I blame the religious schools, but that's just me. the fact that white brits are a minority in London isn't interesting; they are still the biggest group. |
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John-Boy
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| juniper wrote: | | the fact that white brits are a minority in London isn't interesting; they are still the biggest group. |
Remember that those figures are official, they don't count illegal immigration.
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | the fact that white brits are a minority in London isn't interesting; they are still the biggest group. |
Remember that those figures are official, they don't count illegal immigration. |
yeah, all those scots and dutch hanging around the city, listening to their unholy music, smoking strange drugs...
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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John-Boy
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| Dr.Willy wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | The hard times of old England .. very hard times. |
How so? |
Because we don't do integration that well, as Juniper alluded to. Well, we do a good job
in suppressing the indigenous culture, language, custom are willingly swept aside.
That can cause a bit of tension, I fear that we're seeing a little of it now. Enoch Powell, may
be proven correct.
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John-Boy
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Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | and the best thing, he has nobody to blame but himself. |
?
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | and the best thing, he has nobody to blame but himself. |
? |
well, did you reproduce many times?
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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Dr.Willy
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Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 318
Location: NRW, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | Dr.Willy wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | The hard times of old England .. very hard times. |
How so? |
Because we don't do integration that well, as Juniper alluded to. Well, we do a good job
in suppressing the indigenous culture, language, custom are willingly swept aside. |
Well, that's what I wanted to point out. Immigration itself is not the problem and whoever says so is likely just a little narrowminded. Integration is where (all?) western countries fail.
Think about it, if you're in a position where other people would want to live in your country that is a good thing. However the current opinion seems to be that it's best to share all we have with whomever asks for it. And before you really realise it, your wealth is gone.
I can't say I've seen much of England, but my impressions from my trip to Manchester earlier this year were that a) things looked looked a little run down and b) that england is a police state (I couldn't help but thinking of V for Vendetta).
Thinking about it, what wealth am I talking about anyway? I'd like to point fingers, but every western state I can think of is drowning in debts. People call it a Euro-Crisis but in reality its a debt crisis. Due to the Euro Greece can't just print money aka devalue their currency to lower their debts. They actually have to repay that shit; And the world is shocked. Like people being surprised by snow in the winter.
What was I getting at? Right, immigration. We're in a position where people want to live in our countries. That's good. If these people can make a contribution to our society I don't see a single reason not to offer them a life here.
The problem is that we don't ensure that, even though it would be relatively easy.
In Germany we can blame the Nazis, sort of like an overcompensation. What's your excuse? |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Census shows rise in foreign-born |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | Dr.Willy wrote: | | John-Boy wrote: | | The hard times of old England .. very hard times. |
How so? |
Because we don't do integration that well, as Juniper alluded to. Well, we do a good job
in suppressing the indigenous culture, language, custom are willingly swept aside.
That can cause a bit of tension, I fear that we're seeing a little of it now. Enoch Powell, may
be proven correct. |
You don't do it integration that poorly either. Just not as good as the americas, though that is likely for a good reason (those places are based on immigration). But if you want to make yourself feel better, take the train to Paris and go to one of their suburbs. Not nice.
However, for every Finsbury Park mosque, there there is a queue of Poles who do a pretty good job of integrating. The country is relatively low in crime, things move along quite well. Look at me. I have integrated quite well. You guys are just a little new to the whole immigration game. You'll get good at it.
But if you want people to integrate, I say it is the schools. Write to your MP and get rid of these segregating religious schools. |
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Bones McCracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Are you sure you're not breaking a law by suggesting he go to the Paris suburbs? New Yorkers have been arrested for giving tourists bogus directions that lead them into Harlem. |
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | New Yorkers have been arrested for giving tourists bogus directions that lead them into Harlem. |
 Is that true?
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The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. |
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sikpuppy
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Are you sure you're not breaking a law by suggesting he go to the Paris suburbs? New Yorkers have been arrested for giving tourists bogus directions that lead them into Harlem. |
Well, that's where the Globetrotter's live isn't it? |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | New Yorkers have been arrested for giving tourists bogus directions that lead them into Harlem. |
Is that true? |
Some Japanese tourists years ago. They got beat up and mugged, but one of them had taken a picture of the guy who gave them directions. Probably the only reason anybody followed up on it was because mugging tourists is bad for business, and maybe their consultate got involved. |
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sikpuppy
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Some Japanese tourists years ago. |
Maybe it went like this? |
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pjp
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Some Japanese tourists years ago. They got beat up and mugged, but one of them had taken a picture of the guy who gave them directions. Probably the only reason anybody followed up on it was because mugging tourists is bad for business, and maybe their consultate got involved. |
Japanese? Sounds like it predated hate crime.
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John-Boy
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Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Labour finally get a clue :
Link
| Quote: | | Segregation along ethnic or cultural lines in careers and neighbourhoods in the UK must end |
| Quote: | But he will also say that universal proficiency in the English language is integral to his "One Nation" ideal.
Among his proposals will be banning those without high proficiency from some public sector jobs that involve working closely with people, such as home helps. |
And a final bugbear of mine :
| Quote: | | He will also say that local authorities should cut their translation services if that would protect their budgets for language classes. |
His eyes opened ! Granted most of the above issues they created in the first place and I still don't trust them, but it's a start.
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notageek
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | They got beat up and mugged... |
This may have something to do with the conviction.
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The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. |
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Bones McCracker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course. We don't arrest people for "malicious inconvenience". |
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notageek
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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That would be funnier, though.
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The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. |
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| John-Boy wrote: | Labour finally get a clue :
Link
| Quote: | | Segregation along ethnic or cultural lines in careers and neighbourhoods in the UK must end |
| Quote: | But he will also say that universal proficiency in the English language is integral to his "One Nation" ideal.
Among his proposals will be banning those without high proficiency from some public sector jobs that involve working closely with people, such as home helps. |
And a final bugbear of mine :
| Quote: | | He will also say that local authorities should cut their translation services if that would protect their budgets for language classes. |
His eyes opened ! Granted most of the above issues they created in the first place and I still don't trust them, but it's a start. |
aren't your first two quotes at odds? I mean, if you ban people who can't speak english properly from certain jobs, won't it promote segregation?
Is the big problem recent arrivals who can't speak english, or the long term resident who don't integrate? I count in the second class the large white british underclass perpetually on benefits. They need to integrate as well.
Why don't you like my solution? Get rid of the religious schools. That won't solve the language problem, but you won't have people born here who have only been around their kind for 20 years. Frankly, those schools are the elephant in the room if integration is your issue. |
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John-Boy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | Get rid of the religious schools. |
It's interesting, in the light of this discussion that a party which traditionally has held very
permissive views on immigration, now releases the above statement. It acknowledges that
language is important in integration and avoiding enclaves & that mistakes have been made.
Those on long term benefits ? Different argument - I'd load 'em onto a compulsory work scheme, even if it costs
in the short term.
Faith schools ? Yes - although Islam is the subject that we're tiptoeing around here, generally most slot in
OK, hardcore Islam doesn't. I'm not against religion as such, so long as it doesn't interfere with me.
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juniper
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| John-Boy wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | Get rid of the religious schools. |
Faith schools ? Yes - although Islam is the subject that we're tiptoeing around here, generally most slot in
OK, hardcore Islam doesn't. I'm not against religion as such, so long as it doesn't interfere with me. |
I have no problem with language training. Frankly, it's a good idea.
Faith schools clearly promote segregation. There are no two ways about it. Not just that, they don't accidentally promote segregation (i.e. it's a unintended consequence), one of their primary functions is to segregate. They are one of the few institutions in this country that can do so. They should also integrate into mainstream society. |
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Are you sure you're not breaking a law by suggesting he go to the Paris suburbs? New Yorkers have been arrested for giving tourists bogus directions that lead them into Harlem. |
why? I am pretty sure nothing would happen if I identify as a tourist:
"Mr Negroe, I am sure you have plenty of reasons to point that rusty 9mm gun at me, but I am not an american, I am a tourist. Please rob that gentlemen over there. Thank you very much.'
Tourists watch, they are not part of it. I am convinced that the inhabitants of that picturesque part of New York understand this and would never harm tourists who are easily identified as tourists.
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
|
Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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