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dE_logics
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: Amd to sell... |
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/us-amd-blackfriday-idUSBRE8AQ12I20121127
the Texas campus.
This's the 1st sign of the beginning of the death of AMD.
Actually it's all AMDs fault.
AMD is giving better products at lower prices than Intel and Nvidia, but the average Joe who'll use Windows on it cant understand the difference. So he'll go for an i3 cause it's 'Intel'
Linux users have a bad impression on ATi graphics and now cause they're embedded in their chipsets, Linux users are least likely to buy an ATi chipset (cause there're no Nvidia/Intel chipsets with AMD sockets) cause of bad experiences and horrible support.
Now it's to be noted that, although Linux users are less in percentage, they're the ones who're likely to buy higher end processors; and a large percent of Linux users are Windows gamers too, they'll also buy higher end graphics solutions to satisfy their gaming and compositing needs, but with that, they need Linux compatibility.
To top that off, they gave late VA API and openCL support.
They'd acquired ATi long ago, but their APU came AFTER Intel's integrated graphics solutions.
So it's all AMDs fault. What do you think?
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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had a bad impression, not have.
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doubleagent
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Intel changed their development model and, as a result, kept producing better processors at a steady pace. I don't think it's too late for AMD, but right now they look pretty dead. It's a shame that they're going to take ATi with them.
Arm is the new kid on the block, though, so if AMD can enter the tablet market they'll probably leave Intel out in the cold. Anything can happen.
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asturm
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Now, if AMD fails there is one group of people having to do _the_least_ with it: Linux gaming/graphics users. [/thread obsolete]
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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too bad that AMd accepted the meager payout by intel when the monopoly abuse charges popped up elsewhere. They could have got a way bigger slice of the cake.
Ok, without intel bribing&blackmailing AMD would have had gained a huge marketshare back in the athlon days - with all the benefits....
so at the end, intel once again stiffled development.
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pjp
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| doubleagent wrote: | | if AMD can enter the tablet market they'll probably leave Intel out in the cold. Anything can happen. |
How is AMD going to make a dent with well established strong ARM suppliers (pun not intended)? Intel isn't lying still, and they already have a credible processor for the segment. I'm not saying it is perfect, but I'd expect significant improvements in the next iteration. AFAIK, AMD doesn't even have a plan to release something.
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dE_logics
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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About ARM: It's to be noted that with the rise of laptops, people though desktops will be dead but that never happened, it's only this year that the laptop sales were 65%.
Laptops have bad reliability, high maintenance costs and bad ergonomics, and in all these aspects, tablets are worst.
Working long time on a tablet is a recipe to Spondylitis.
People are buying tablets cause they're 'cool gadgets' and a Desktop/Laptops is all about Windows (x86), viruses and reformats; otherwise there're no real reasons.
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audiodef
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Amd to sell... |
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| dE_logics wrote: | a large percent of Linux users are Windows gamers too, they'll also buy higher end graphics solutions to satisfy their gaming and composting needs, but with that, they need Linux compatibility.
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Hm... I usually just need a nice bin and some discarded organic matter to satisfy my composting needs, but if I need a good video card for that, I'll be sure to make it high-end. 
I would hate to see AMD go. I don't like Intel.
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dE_logics
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry about that... blame it on FF spell check.
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| This is so funny to me. AMD spent years talking shit about Conroe and Merom, and look at them now. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dE_logics wrote: | Laptops have bad reliability, high maintenance costs and bad ergonomics, and in all these aspects, tablets are worst.
Working long time on a tablet is a recipe to Spondylitis.
People are buying tablets cause they're 'cool gadgets' and a Desktop/Laptops is all about Windows (x86), viruses and reformats; otherwise there're no real reasons. |
I've been using a laptop at work exclusively since 2006. and personally since ~2007. I had a minor RSI in my mousing wrist due to work back in the late 90s, when I switched to an MS Natural Keyboard a few years later. Using my Thinkpad w/TrackPoint, I've rarely had a recurrence. For work laptops, I've had external monitors and keyboards. I won't go back to a desktop. I will have workstations / servers as needed.
My main complaint about tablets is that there is no reason they can't be a real laptop with the screen detachable. From what I've seen of tablet docks, they suck (though the Surface commercials make it seem more integrated). In fact, the Note with integrated dock would be killer.
Given the increase in phone usage for "computing" -- it amazes me watching people fiddle with phones hunched over like gollum or something -- the "killer app" will be seamless transitions from device to device instead of just in a single machine. What you're doing can move from phone to any other device (tablet, laptop, TV, ...?) and back without much difficulty. Of course, being able to do it independent of any manufacturer's vertical garden is the real killer app.
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asturm
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| dE_logics wrote: | | Working long time on a tablet is a recipe to Spondylitis. |
Sorry, but who is 'working' on a tablet? Those are all about consuming. And people buy them because for some tasks, mostly viewing stuff, tablets are just the most natural thing to use.
I've heard a lot of praise about the Asus Infinity TF700T tablet and keyboard dock. I would probably buy that, being in the market for one - which will depend on this year's tax return.
Now, 'working' still happens on desktops or laptops so I can't see those go away. For the latter, ergonomics hardly matter beyond weight and size when on the go, at home there are docking stations and real peripherals. Quality - you always get what you pay for.
For AMD there is not much hope in the ARM market - it is crowded with vendors already and margins are quite low - unless ARM servers are going to take off in the future.
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flysideways
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| It'll be a monitor with a dock for your cellphone and a wireless keyboard. |
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audiodef
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dE_logics wrote: |
Sorry about that... blame it on FF spell check. |
It was funny! 
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audiodef
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | watching people fiddle with phones hunched over like gollum or something |
I'd like to see someone hunched over his phone saying "My... PRECIOUS!"
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Bigun
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I hope not, if Intel winds up having nearly 100% of the market share, we are all screwed.
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| audiodef wrote: | | I'd like to see someone hunched over his phone saying "My... PRECIOUS!" |
Have you not met an iPhone user? :D
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asturm
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bigun wrote: | | I hope not, if Intel winds up having nearly 100% of the market share, we are all screwed. |
Not if ARM rises up to a real alternative - Linux will be there instantly. Wait - it's there already, on a majority of systems.
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dE_logics
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | I've been using a laptop at work exclusively since 2006. and personally since ~2007. I had a minor RSI in my mousing wrist due to work back in the late 90s, when I switched to an MS Natural Keyboard a few years later. Using my Thinkpad w/TrackPoint, I've rarely had a recurrence. For work laptops, I've had external monitors and keyboards. I won't go back to a desktop. I will have workstations / servers as needed. |
A few exceptions exist. My laptop's charging circuit on the mobo stopped working within a year; and all people I know around me have laptop problems; their desktops never complained except for a bad HDD.
| Quote: | | My main complaint about tablets is that there is no reason they can't be a real laptop with the screen detachable. From what I've seen of tablet docks, they suck (though the Surface commercials make it seem more integrated). In fact, the Note with integrated dock would be killer. |
There's already 1 -- Ultrabook.
| Quote: | | Given the increase in phone usage for "computing" -- it amazes me watching people fiddle with phones hunched over like gollum or something -- the "killer app" will be seamless transitions from device to device instead of just in a single machine. What you're doing can move from phone to any other device (tablet, laptop, TV, ...?) and back without much difficulty. Of course, being able to do it independent of any manufacturer's vertical garden is the real killer app. |
SSH, VNC etc...?
| genstorm wrote: | | Sorry, but who is 'working' on a tablet? Those are all about consuming. And people buy them because for some tasks, mostly viewing stuff, tablets are just the most natural thing to use. |
But it doesn't have natural ergonomics. If you ain't laying down, it's difficult to even watch a movie in it.
| flysideways wrote: | | It'll be a monitor with a dock for your cellphone and a wireless keyboard. |
You mean this?
I wonder why there hasn't been any phone/tablet like this around. It appears wherever device manufactures see the possibility of Microsoft's OS in the device, they start drooling all over the place, even if it's loada crap; otherwise this appears to be the future.
| genstorm wrote: | | Bigun wrote: | | I hope not, if Intel winds up having nearly 100% of the market share, we are all screwed. |
Not if ARM rises up to a real alternative - Linux will be there instantly. Wait - it's there already, on a majority of systems. |
But it wont make a difference to the Desktops. To people, Desktop means Windows and the court is doing nothing about it.
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disi
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| genstorm wrote: | | Bigun wrote: | | I hope not, if Intel winds up having nearly 100% of the market share, we are all screwed. |
Not if ARM rises up to a real alternative - Linux will be there instantly. Wait - it's there already, on a majority of systems. |
ARM reminds me a little of AMD Duron (I had the 800MHz running at ~1GHz)
They hit the 1GHz and then there was no way to increase clock speeds without burning the CPU, so they came out with Athlon (neverwind Pentium back then, it was stuck on PII or PIII I think) which was a huge step in x86. Not mentioning 64bit support with Barten then etc.
Now ARM is at ~1GHz, the only difference I see is that it is easier nowadays to put 1-64 cores on one chip.
I see the future in either extreme powerful cores with 4-5GHz x86 or low power ARM cores and lots of them in one chip.
As for AMD I really want them to go on with x86+graphics chips, I really don't care any more if the core can do 3GHz or 5GHz in x86.
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audiodef
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | audiodef wrote: | | I'd like to see someone hunched over his phone saying "My... PRECIOUS!" |
Have you not met an iPhone user?  |
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audiodef
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dE_logics wrote: |
I wonder why there hasn't been any phone/tablet like this around. It appears wherever device manufactures see the possibility of Microsoft's OS in the device, they start drooling all over the place, even if it's loada crap; otherwise this appears to be the future.
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Speaking of Microsoft's OS, my girlfriend and I recently saw that ad for Microsoft's phone. She told me the ad said something along the lines of "it's Microsoft, so there isn't much to learn".
We sat back, blinked, and asked each other "did Microsoft just insult itself and not even know it?" 
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dE_logics
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| audiodef wrote: | | dE_logics wrote: |
I wonder why there hasn't been any phone/tablet like this around. It appears wherever device manufactures see the possibility of Microsoft's OS in the device, they start drooling all over the place, even if it's loada crap; otherwise this appears to be the future.
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Speaking of Microsoft's OS, my girlfriend and I recently saw that ad for Microsoft's phone. She told me the ad said something along the lines of "it's Microsoft, so there isn't much to learn".
We sat back, blinked, and asked each other "did Microsoft just insult itself and not even know it?"
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If you go by Microsoft's ads, they say 'your photo is your password'; and that's indeed true with face recognition.
All of a sudden (after departure of Bill), MS seems to be doing things all wrong.... They bought Skype for too much, Win RT is virtual machine on a tablet/phone device with a slow processors and you don't have an option of win32, they're trying to run Mobile apps on Desktop and visa-versa which's never going to be a success cause of their design (the same reason why Android tablets fail in front of ipad) and their ads are really pretty much non sense, they've pretty much nothing to say.
Also, your GF is NOT a techie right?
| disi wrote: | ARM reminds me a little of AMD Duron (I had the 800MHz running at ~1GHz)
They hit the 1GHz and then there was no way to increase clock speeds without burning the CPU, so they came out with Athlon (neverwind Pentium back then, it was stuck on PII or PIII I think) which was a huge step in x86. Not mentioning 64bit support with Barten then etc.
Now ARM is at ~1GHz, the only difference I see is that it is easier nowadays to put 1-64 cores on one chip.
I see the future in either extreme powerful cores with 4-5GHz x86 or low power ARM cores and lots of them in one chip.
As for AMD I really want them to go on with x86+graphics chips, I really don't care any more if the core can do 3GHz or 5GHz in x86. |
People do not need much of processing power....... BUT as of the current time, the prices of the higher end needs to reduce to meet requirements. 1GHz & dual core is powerful enough for everyone; but for gamers we need a powerful GPU too... that's what's more important.
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asturm
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| disi wrote: | ARM reminds me a little of AMD Duron (I had the 800MHz running at ~1GHz)
They hit the 1GHz and then there was no way to increase clock speeds without burning the CPU, so they came out with Athlon (neverwind Pentium back then, it was stuck on PII or PIII I think) which was a huge step in x86. Not mentioning 64bit support with Barten then etc. |
Nope, Duron always was to Athlon what Celeron had been to Pentium. Barton was just a last generation Athlon core with more cache during Northwood era, solid, but underperforming. 64 Bit didn't arrive before Athlon 64 in 2003.
| dE_logics wrote: | | A few exceptions exist. My laptop's charging circuit on the mobo stopped working within a year; and all people I know around me have laptop problems; their desktops never complained except for a bad HDD. |
Yes, thats because consumers buy cheap, pay double. Worse, lots of people have no clue how to treat their stuff so that it won't break in record time - I guess that comes with throwaway prices. No signs of age on my 4 yr old ThinkPad.
| dE_logics wrote: | | genstorm wrote: | | Sorry, but who is 'working' on a tablet? Those are all about consuming. And people buy them because for some tasks, mostly viewing stuff, tablets are just the most natural thing to use. |
But it doesn't have natural ergonomics. If you ain't laying down, it's difficult to even watch a movie in it. |
There do exist covers that also serve as stands.
| disi wrote: | | As for AMD I really want them to go on with x86+graphics chips, I really don't care any more if the core can do 3GHz or 5GHz in x86. |
I'm sure there's nothing stopping AMD from pairing an ARM chip with a powerful graphics chip.
Now, the latest news from AMD say that they will drop SOI process. That means they are going to give up competition on performance/watts completely and just go for cheap production. So they will lose me as a customer too - they never managed to compete with Intel since the introduction of Centrino I, but at least their desktop chips had always been good alternatives in the lower ranges because they weren't crippled in feature sets. Now, I'm even more interested in future ARM server systems. For my next laptop, it is going to be some Haswell chip.
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| dE_logics wrote: | | A few exceptions exist. My laptop's charging circuit on the mobo stopped working within a year; and all people I know around me have laptop problems; their desktops never complained except for a bad HDD. |
Among the laptops I've supported and the people I've been around, I haven't heard of any greater number of problems. Personally I've only been exposed to 2 "widespread" hardware problems. One was with Dell's inferior capacitors (desktop line). The other was, IIRC, a video problem in a series of HP laptops.
| dE_logics wrote: | | There's already 1 -- Ultrabook. |
Cool, hadn't heard that. All I'd seen was that it was an Intel only spec for a laptop. I'll take a look.
| dE_logics wrote: | | SSH, VNC etc...? |
VNC should die. ssh is useful, but I don't see how any of them are going to do anything even remotely (no pun intended) close to what I was describing.
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