Marines are Cannon Fodder

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

I heard this idea from someone again today. Where does it come from?

Dr.Willy · Guru Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 447 Location: NRW, Germany

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

I thought "cannon fodder" was where you get slaughtered.

aidanjt · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject:

Aren't spearhead units whom are tasked with opening beachheads by definition 'cannon fodder'? You know, with the extreme risk such missions represent. Maybe not as bad as Eastern Front grade of cannon fodder, but cannon fodder all the same.
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BonezTheGoon · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 17216

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

You said it, too? I completely forgot. :lol:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 17216

If not exactly that, something like it. But it was mainly intended as an inter-service jab.
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The whole system has to go. The modern criminal justice system is incompatible with Neuroscience. --Sapolsky

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

Prenj · n00b Joined: 20 Nov 2011 Posts: 16

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 17216

In my experience, civilians making such comments are OWSer types. You just have to hope the freedom they have to say it eventually leads them to a clue. I've also heard it directed at the military in general when the person is criticizing the government more than members of the military. Although that is often accompanied by the assumption that anyone in the military is stupid (or they wouldn't be there).
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The whole system has to go. The modern criminal justice system is incompatible with Neuroscience. --Sapolsky

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

Bones McCracker · Veteran Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.

Marines aren't cannon fodder; they are amphibious shock troops:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_troops

The nature of the mission of shock troops requires that be willing and able to assault prepared defenses. That means charging into enemy fire. When you do that, some people are going to die. A well-trained, well-led unit of sufficient size will do it right and overwhelm the defenders without losing an inordinate percentage of the force.

No leader with an alternative sends his men to assault a prepared defense, but sometimes it's necessary. Where it's necessary, it's best to use all the fires you can get (e.g. preparatory airstrikes and artillery, close air support, attack helicopters, electronic warfare, etc.), and carefully selected, specially trained units who can pull it off with as few losses as possible.

In such a situation, average soldiers will end up attacking piecemeal, as many of them wait for the other guy to go first, lose their ability to function, fire blindly, and just become targets running to keep up with their buddies as best they can. Such a unit will fail to achieve overwhelming mass and concentration of combat power, and they'll get shredded.

What's required is that every man have the strength of character, the realistic training or combat experience, and the necessary confidence in the other members of their unit, that they will indeed all attack without hesitation, in a closely-coordinated fashion, achieving the necessary maneuver and concentrations of combined arms combat power to overwhelm the defender. This isn't like defending some hilltop; it takes a great deal of expertise, and it takes a lot of very brave men.

That doesn't make them "cannon fodder" more than any other warrior who is a target. It just makes them a special kind of warrior who is more likely to keep his shit together under extreme duress, work as a team through chaos and confusion, and come out on top in a heavy fight. Also, the only officers who can successfully lead such men do so by sharing every hardship and leading by example and from the front. That's why the motto of the U.S. Infantry is "Follow Me". I'm sure the Marines have a similar philosophy.
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wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

Interesting. All USMC officers are trained by enlisted Marines from start to finish. Their boot camp is roughly the same as ours, with some exceptions. Our close order drill practice is replaced with their extra PT. As every enlisted Marine is trained to be a basic rifleman, every officer is trained to be a basic infantry commander. The idea is that if the shit really hits the fan and the grunts are preoccupied, no group of Marines is ever ill-prepared to respond.

And yes, the USMC infantry does indeed have a "follow me" mentality.

EDIT: Go to 0:56. :lol:

dmitchell · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:26 am Post subject:

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

PaulBredbury · Watchman Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 7310

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 17216

dmitchell · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:57 am Post subject:

aidanjt · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:57 am Post subject:

Bones McCracker · Veteran Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.

Bones McCracker · Veteran Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1605 Location: U.S.A.

wswartzendruber · Veteran Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 1244 Location: ID, USA

No really, do I come off as a dick about being veteran?

energyman76b · Advocate Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 2045 Location: Germany