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think4urs11 Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 6659 Location: above the cloud
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine wrote: | I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one. _________________ Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself |
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Shining Arcanine Veteran
Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 1110
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:48 am Post subject: |
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think4urs11 wrote: | Shining Arcanine wrote: | I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one. |
Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo. |
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AllenJB Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine wrote: | think4urs11 wrote: | Shining Arcanine wrote: | I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one. |
Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo. |
Most companies tend to run commercial distros like RHEL because they get gaurantees in writing that problems will be fixed within a certain timeframe. It doesn't matter if they never actually need this service or not, they need it to be there just in case they need it.
RedHat supply a solution to a demand. That's what (good) businesses do.
It's also a disservice to all the work that RedHat has contributed to open source over the years to pretend that those who work purely for the fun of it are somehow better than RedHat. I'm sure there are many contributors doing it just for fun who would love to be in the position of RedHat employees, getting paid for it too. |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I had 150 messages on my dev box because of that subject and the other one too |
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Shining Arcanine Veteran
Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 1110
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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AllenJB wrote: | Most companies tend to run commercial distros like RHEL because they get gaurantees in writing that problems will be fixed within a certain timeframe. It doesn't matter if they never actually need this service or not, they need it to be there just in case they need it.
RedHat supply a solution to a demand. That's what (good) businesses do.
It's also a disservice to all the work that RedHat has contributed to open source over the years to pretend that those who work purely for the fun of it are somehow better than RedHat. I'm sure there are many contributors doing it just for fun who would love to be in the position of RedHat employees, getting paid for it too. |
They have done a great deal, but I do not think RHEL is inherently better than Gentoo Linux such that it would justify that businesses use RHEL instead of Gentoo Linux. The fact that businesses use RHEL means that any fixes that a business would have done with Gentoo that could potentially benefit all Gentoo users never happens and instead is done by RedHat and sent upstream. Gentoo only sees it after it trickles down from upstream and with the limited resources of Gentoo's developers, that can take a while.
With all of the money that businesses pay to Redhat, I think that they could probably afford to have their own in-house team to work on whatever distribution they choose to use. |
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think4urs11 Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 6659 Location: above the cloud
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine wrote: | think4urs11 wrote: | Shining Arcanine wrote: | I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one. |
Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo. |
And your point is?
(Cluess) CEO/CFO/CIO-alphabet soup people deciding between Gentoo/Puppy/Vector-linux based on website availability for the OS to be used on their buiness servers? _________________ Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself |
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yngwin Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002 Posts: 4572 Location: Suzhou, China
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Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine wrote: | AllenJB wrote: | I hate it when peopple bring up the "official" thing. In my experience the Gentoo Forums are unavailable just as frequently as Gentoo Wiki. Having Gentoo Wiki as an official project is not a magic bullet. |
Here is a question. Why are these resources going down so frequently? I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
It has not so much to do with the servers, as the www.gentoo.org website is practically always available. The problem is more the forums software, as there isn't really any open source package that doing this really well, especially at the volume we need. The forums team is doing a great job, all things considered, into making phpBB usable at all for our needs. I don't think the unofficial wiki has quite the amount of traffic and extensive database that our forums have, so I don't think the comparison is really fair. _________________ "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF |
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AllenJB Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 1285
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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I really wouldn't put so much faith in such discussions. This isn't the first time an official wiki has been discussed. It's happened many times before and nothing has ever come of it. I doubt anything will ever come of this discussion either.
There are 2 major problems with the official wiki concept:
1) Developers can never agree what the wiki should contain, what the restrictions should be and who would put in the day-to-day work of maintaining such a wiki and keeping it spam free.
2) Nobody makes any moves towards implementing the wiki. At the end of the day, discussion frequently achieves nothing. You need the Nike attitude if you want things to happen. |
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Shining Arcanine Veteran
Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 1110
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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yngwin wrote: | Shining Arcanine wrote: | AllenJB wrote: | I hate it when peopple bring up the "official" thing. In my experience the Gentoo Forums are unavailable just as frequently as Gentoo Wiki. Having Gentoo Wiki as an official project is not a magic bullet. |
Here is a question. Why are these resources going down so frequently? I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo. |
It has not so much to do with the servers, as the www.gentoo.org website is practically always available. The problem is more the forums software, as there isn't really any open source package that doing this really well, especially at the volume we need. The forums team is doing a great job, all things considered, into making phpBB usable at all for our needs. I don't think the unofficial wiki has quite the amount of traffic and extensive database that our forums have, so I don't think the comparison is really fair. |
Are the forums using a PostgreSQL backend or a MySQL backend? I understand that phpBB supports PostgreSQL, so if they is not using that, switching might help. |
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yngwin Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002 Posts: 4572 Location: Suzhou, China
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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AllenJB wrote: |
I really wouldn't put so much faith in such discussions. This isn't the first time an official wiki has been discussed. It's happened many times before and nothing has ever come of it. I doubt anything will ever come of this discussion either.
There are 2 major problems with the official wiki concept:
1) Developers can never agree what the wiki should contain, what the restrictions should be and who would put in the day-to-day work of maintaining such a wiki and keeping it spam free. |
There is agreement now, and we are forming a team. So far 10 people, both developers and users, have volunteered.
AllenJB wrote: | 2) Nobody makes any moves towards implementing the wiki. |
This is exactly what we are doing now. _________________ "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF |
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avx Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 2152
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if it would finally be up and official, I'd volunteer for some day2day work, hoping there'll be a better backup-strategy than the unofficial one has/had. I hate it, when I spent a lot of work, all of a sudden it's gone and I can't do anything about it.
Related to restrictions, I'd say registered users only, linked against the userdb of the forums and 20 non-OTW-posts are needed to start on the wiki. That should keep most of the spammers out, espacially if you link forum-bans to the wiki-accs and the other way round. |
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richard.scott Veteran
Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 1497 Location: Oxfordshire, UK
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the project is actually started |
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jcTux Apprentice
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 276 Location: Tours, France
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah ! |
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tomk Bodhisattva
Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 7221 Location: Sat in front of my computer
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DancesWithWords Guru
Joined: 29 Jun 2002 Posts: 347 Location: ottawa, canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:30 am Post subject: gentoo wiki |
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Can some else check the gentoo wiki, I can't seem to access it, I'm just wondering if it is my connection? |
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mikegpitt Advocate
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 3224
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 am Post subject: Re: gentoo wiki |
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DancesWithWords wrote: | Can some else check the gentoo wiki, I can't seem to access it, I'm just wondering if it is my connection? | It appears down for me at the moment too. |
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PatomaS Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 128
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Yes, seems down for now.
Bye _________________ ¡ hey, hou, hou, hey ! |
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tomk Bodhisattva
Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 7221 Location: Sat in front of my computer
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slick Bodhisattva
Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Posts: 3495
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
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richard.scott in April 2010 wrote: | ... an Official Gentoo Wiki ... |
d2_racing in April 2010 wrote: | Yeah, the project is actually started |
Long time ago there was a "Official Gentoo Wiki" project.
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/wiki/
What is the current state now? |
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davidm Guru
Joined: 26 Apr 2009 Posts: 557 Location: US
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been able to connect to it for a few days. I will look into ways to grab it from the Google cache and/or other archives tonight just in case....unless someone already has an archive of it or someone knows what is going on?
While it's not an official wiki and there are still the official docs on Gentoo.org, I have still found it quite useful in the past. |
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cheater512 Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 145 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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There is always www.gentoo-wiki.info which is a snapshot taken when their database was lost.[/url] |
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dol-sen Retired Dev
Joined: 30 Jun 2002 Posts: 2805 Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:15 am Post subject: |
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For whatever reason, the site seems to go down this time of year as the gsoc gets underway.
As for the "official" gentoo wiki, it seems to have wavered due most probably to a lack of manpower _________________ Brian
Porthole, the Portage GUI frontend irc@freenode: #gentoo-guis, #porthole, Blog
layman, gentoolkit, CoreBuilder, esearch... |
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aidanjt Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1118 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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More like a lack of will by the supreme beings to let us mere mortals contribute. Any moron can throw up a mediawiki installation in literally minutes. 'Man power' has just become apologist for uselessness. _________________
juniper wrote: | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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Fog_Watch Apprentice
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 267 Location: Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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As per usual, Gentoo has some of the best documentation around; for example. And more good news, you can access it right now. The trouble is you can't be sure for how long gentoo-wiki.com will be up. I don't care whether our wiki is official or not, I just want reliable access, please. |
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