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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Flash Sucks On Old Hardware Reply with quote

Hello,

This problem is not Gentoo specific, Is it all about flash I think for any operating system.

Flash works fine on my fast computer. Actually I use gnash now just to support free software, and although gnash still sucks right now I still like it better for the few youtube videos that it plays in swf 8-9 format.

But on my old computer, flash and gnash runs extremely slow. There is no watching a streaming flash video from my old computer because it is so incredibly slow.

My old computer is a Dell (Dimension L600cx) with the following graphic card specs:
Code:
00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82810E DC-133 (CGC) Chipset
 Graphics Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Device 4332
        Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 11
        Memory at f8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
        Memory at ffa80000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512K]
        Expansion ROM at <unassigned> [disabled]
        Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1


I am using the intel driver and also have no support with compiz because it is too old I guess.

I have installed LXDE (Light Weight Desktop Environment) on my old computer with many lightweight apps to make it go as fast as possible in a full desktop environment. Everything works so perfectly except for flash.

So my question is:

Is there anything I can do to make flash run at a watchable speed or should I just remove all flash plugins from my old computer.

If you want any more info about my crappy computer specs please ask.

Thanks for any help
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EzInKy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is. Install the Video Download Helper addon for Firefox and forget about depending on streaming. Most video players are quite adept at playing content from your hard drive.
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Last edited by EzInKy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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aCOSwt
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I remember there has been a solution for @&@@# flash7 throught DirectFB.
I never tested, I do not know if this solution has been kept operational with newer flashs either...
You might search in this direction
Anyway... it is not gnash which "sucks". It's flash which is evil ! :evil:
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sebaro
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://gentoo-portage.com/Search?search=youtube
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EzInKy,

I have used download helper before but never thought about using it as my only way to watch flash, but I guess that may be my only option for this crappy computer.

The video plays well in Whaaw media player but when I go full screen I see only a black screen even thought the audio plays fine. Iguess thats because of mu crappy specs.

Anything I can do about this?

Thanks

aCOSwt,

I guess I will search for flash and DirectFB to see if I find anything useful, thanks for the helpful info.

Also I know gnash does not really suck, it is here to save us from adobe's proprietary license. :D
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sebaro,

Thanks for the link, I will try each one of those downloaders to see which one suites me best.
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EzInKy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpiroPoulos89 wrote:
EzInKy,

I have used download helper before but never thought about using it as my only way to watch flash, but I guess that may be my only option for this crappy computer.

The video plays well in Whaaw media player but when I go full screen I see only a black screen even thought the audio plays fine. Iguess thats because of mu crappy specs.

Anything I can do about this?

Thanks

aCOSwt,

I guess I will search for flash and DirectFB to see if I find anything useful, thanks for the helpful info.

Also I know gnash does not really suck, it is here to save us from adobe's proprietary license. :D


Honestly? It's not that old CPUs suck, it's just that today's software expects them to do more than they were designed to do B-)
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EzInKy,

If your saying that the problem is from the software side, then wouldn't a free alternative like gnash consider older hardware??

I would think they should try to solve all the careless problems from the proprietary's developers. Or maybe that's a future goal since gnash is still in development.
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aCOSwt
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EzInKy wrote:
Honestly? It's not that old CPUs suck, it's just that today's software expects them to do more than they were designed to do B-)

Honestly you wrote ? :lol:
Honestly it's not that today's software expects cpu to do more... it's that today's programmers just no longer care about hardware !
They just write on top of a pile of abstraction layers.
If you are a true veteran EzInKy... you certainly know "real programmers do not use Pascal" :twisted:
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

I installed minitube recently.

It's a program that streams youtube videos using gstreamer instead of flash. I am surprised to see how well the streaming videos play on my crappy computer using minitube.

So obviously streaming is not the problem, It is all flash players fault.

I would definitely like to see more programs like minitube that work with other popular streaming sites. Because then I can say my really old outdated computer can still do everything and pretty fast except 3d stuff.


Last edited by SpiroPoulos89 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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XQYZ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could give Chromium and http://www.youtube.com/html5 a spin? Haven't tested it personally though.
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XQYZ,

On my good computer I use epiphany and epiphany makes it real easy to use the html5 player through the extensions manager.

On my old computer I use midory. Maybe I'll try to use the html5 player with midory but I don't think I really need to since minitube works so well.

But if html5 player works just as fast on my old computer then I guess it will be worth it.
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Kingoftherings
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using a GreaseMonkey script to play Youtube videos with mplayer.
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/50771
I like it because it just replaces the Flash player in Youtube with an mplayer streaming window thing. You need to install gecko-mplayer to get it to work. (It might be gmplayer, I don't remember)

There is also minitube in portage. It's a Qt application that plays Youtube videos through gstreamer (using Phonon). It's nice, but it lacks some features like "Related Videos" that I like to use. And last I used it, you can't give it a direct URL to the video. You have to search for it in Minitube.
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingoftherings,

I'm actually already using a Grease Monkey script "youtube without flash auto" and I use it with totem player. This has worked for me but on my old computer the totem player shows up but doesn't seem to do anything.

Also if you read the above posts you would already know that I am using minitube already.


Last edited by SpiroPoulos89 on Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kingoftherings
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpiroPoulos89 wrote:
Kingoftherings,

I'm actually already using a greacemonkey script "youtube without flash auto" and I use it with totem player. This has worked for me but on my old computer the totem player shows up but doesn't seem to do anything.

Also if you read the above posts you would already know that I am using minitube already.


For the script, you could try using mplayer or vlc. It might just be a totem bug or something.
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Aquiles
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not that Flash sucks in old computers. Flash sucks. Period.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious, what CPU?

With an i810 chipset it's probably socket 370... P3-age

I tried flash on my P3-1GHz/i815 and Celeron-1200/440BX (with Matrox G400) -- both were slow playing flash video.

Flash video is pretty slow on my Athlon XP2200+/SiS735 (with ATI Rage Pro Turbo) -- just barely able to keep up with general flash video... this is probably due to video card issues.

Someone tells me I should move the G400 to my Athlon...
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r,

I have 600 MH CPU and 256 MB RAM.

Here are two commands that give a lot of info about my CPU and Memory:
Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor   : 0
vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family   : 6
model      : 8
model name   : Celeron (Coppermine)
stepping   : 6
cpu MHz      : 598.101
cache size   : 128 KB
fdiv_bug   : no
hlt_bug      : no
f00f_bug   : no
coma_bug   : no
fpu      : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level   : 2
wp      : yes
flags      : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pse36 mmx fxsr sse up
bogomips   : 1196.20
clflush size   : 32
cache_alignment   : 32
address sizes   : 36 bits physical, 32 bits virtual
power management:


cat /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:         253056 kB
MemFree:            4440 kB
Buffers:            5148 kB
Cached:            93696 kB
SwapCached:            0 kB
Active:           111948 kB
Inactive:          91960 kB
Active(anon):      92896 kB
Inactive(anon):    14400 kB
Active(file):      19052 kB
Inactive(file):    77560 kB
Unevictable:           0 kB
Mlocked:               0 kB
HighTotal:             0 kB
HighFree:              0 kB
LowTotal:         253056 kB
LowFree:            4440 kB
SwapTotal:        996020 kB
SwapFree:         996020 kB
Dirty:                 0 kB
Writeback:             0 kB
AnonPages:        105064 kB
Mapped:            39020 kB
Shmem:              2232 kB
Slab:              10764 kB
SReclaimable:       5536 kB
SUnreclaim:         5228 kB
KernelStack:         640 kB
PageTables:         1228 kB
NFS_Unstable:          0 kB
Bounce:                0 kB
WritebackTmp:          0 kB
CommitLimit:     1122548 kB
Committed_AS:     236588 kB
VmallocTotal:     771320 kB
VmallocUsed:        9936 kB
VmallocChunk:     752628 kB
HugePages_Total:       0
HugePages_Free:        0
HugePages_Rsvd:        0
HugePages_Surp:        0
Hugepagesize:       4096 kB
DirectMap4k:       43776 kB
DirectMap4M:      217088 kB


I think its interesting how besides 3D effects everything else works so great on my crappy computer, then flash comes in and tries to take over the internet as if its trying to force me to get a new computer.

Besides 3D effects, Flash is seriously the only thing that makes me feel like my computer is out dated.That alone is enough reason for me to say that it is a crap format that should not be used EVER!
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingoftherings,

Totem works fine with the script on my good computer where I use Epiphany. On my old computer I use Midory. Maybe its a problem with Midory and Totem.

Either way I don't see a reason to install Mplayer or VLC since I can just use minitube which I like even though it has no Related Videos yet.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpiroPoulos89 wrote:
eccerr0r,

I have 600 MH CPU and 256 MB RAM.

I get about 4fps or so on these slower machines... enough to get a gist of what's going on but very choppy fast flipping slide show. Sound is fine though - no choppiness at all. Also have 256MB RAM. Since both of my P3's are faster than 600MHz, you probably get around 2fps, which is getting to the point of a regular slide show... Is it about this fast? Probably not much can be done...

It is unfortunate, except for 3D and video, these old machines should be good enough for most everything, but once these content classes become mandatory, it obsoletes them... :(
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SpiroPoulos89
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:

I get about 4fps or so on these slower machines... enough to get a gist of what's going on but very choppy fast flipping slide show. Sound is fine though - no choppiness at all. Also have 256MB RAM.
It is unfortunate, except for 3D and video, these old machines should be good enough for most everything, but once these content classes become mandatory, it obsoletes them... :(


You said 3D and video. It is not video in general, just video played with Flash Player. Streaming video with gstreamer works as fast as ever even on my crappy computer.

eccerr0r wrote:

Since both of my P3's are faster than 600MHz, you probably get around 2fps, which is getting to the point of a regular slide show... Is it about this fast? Probably not much can be done...


I would say I probably do get about 2fps because it is kinda like a slide show.

Not much can be done for most sites maybe, but for youtube much can be done. The script mentioned above makes totem, mplayer, or vlc play the youtube video and it plays very fast. Or minitube streams youtube very fast using gstreamer.

Thats why I think it would be great to have either more userscripts like "youtube without flash auto" that work with other popular streaming sites or more programs like minitube that works with other popular streaming sites.
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ChojinDSL
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, I can't wait for the day when flash has been rendered completely obsolete (not just video) by open web standards.

Perhaps the popularity of mobile devices such as smartphones will inspire web development to move into a flash-free direction.
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Frostwarrior
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choppyness in a pentium 600mhz? Are all of you kidding?
Really, slowness for desktop software excluding flash and 3D is not a problem even for a pentium II with a SiS video card.

I have a pentium w/mmx, 166Mhz. THAT's choppy :lol:
It has a S3 Trio64 videocard, Yamaha ISA sound card. 145 RAM (Full of win for being SDRAM memories)
The video driver is quite buggy, and I dont espect someone TODAY will try to fix it. It works, period.
The sound card is SAD. It lags on a >128kbps sound stream.

I used it when it had 32mb of ram. Fluxbox and say thanks to god.
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