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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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 Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:23 am Post subject: I must be misinterpreting emerge ... right? |
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Ok, i'm officially confused, and have been for the past several weeks. I've just recently had the time to begin to investigate though.
Lately many of my already installed packages that need to be updated are shown as completely not installed by emerge. Point in case:
Relevant output from emerge -pu world
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[ebuild N ] sys-kernel/development-sources-2.6.0_beta8
[ebuild N ] media-libs/xine-lib-1_rc1
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Relevant output from emerge -s development-sources xine-lib
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Searching...
[ Results for search key : development-sources ]
[ Applications found : 1 ]
* sys-kernel/development-sources
Latest version available: 2.6.0_beta8
Latest version installed: 2.6.0_beta7
Size of downloaded files: 32,379 kB
Homepage: http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/
Description: Full sources for the Development Branch of the Linux kernel
Searching...
[ Results for search key : xine-lib ]
[ Applications found : 1 ]
* media-libs/xine-lib
Latest version available: 1_rc1
Latest version installed: 1_rc0-r3
Size of downloaded files: 4,296 kB
Homepage: http://xine.sourceforge.net/
Description: Core libraries for Xine movie player
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I've done nothing special with these packages (I emerged them like the others and I even tried rebuilding my world package with regenworld). Why is this so?
Also, I guess I don't understand the output from qpkg. For instance 'qpkg -q dev-java/ant' outputs nothing that would indicate why emerge -pu world wants to install it even with it not being in my world file?
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dev-java/ant-1.5.3-r5
DEPENDED ON BY:
dev-java/ant-1.5.4-r1
DEPENDED ON BY:
dev-java/ant-1.5.4-r2
DEPENDED ON BY:
dev-java/ant-1.5.4
DEPENDED ON BY:
dev-java/antlr-2.7.1-r3
DEPENDED ON BY:
dev-java/antlr-2.7.2
DEPENDED ON BY:
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Noticed other inconsistencies but I can't seem to remember them right now or just don't notice them right off hand. Using portage 2.0.49-r13. |
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Cicero
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Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| I new versions of portage, package updates in a different slot are now "N" instead of "U". It threw me for a loop as well, and I don't think I like it. |
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cederberg
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Cicero wrote: | | I new versions of portage, package updates in a different slot are now "N" instead of "U". It threw me for a loop as well, and I don't think I like it. |
Just thinking... Didn't single-slot updates display as [ UD] previously? Now they only do on downgrades. |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah ... why was this changed?  Perhaps it was made to make other things easier or more robust but this is not user friendly-ness or making things any easier/less confusing -- and I've been with Gentoo well over a year. Any admin who sees this happen is gona go "wtf!"
Could, perhaps, someone in the 'know', which doesn't seem to be an average Gentoo user, explain a little more? And are there still bugs because 'dev-java/ant' shouldn't be there anymore ... 
[edit]
ok, my ant problem seems to have gone away with an update to portage that just came out so that must have been temporary breakage ?
But the 'slot' update problem still remains. |
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Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9526
Location: beyond the rim
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's just as confusing as the previous situation, personally I'd just use a different and unused letter to indicate SLOT changes. From a technical point of view N is more correct than U as that SLOT is new, however it's not very intuitive.
Also UD was never used to show upgrades, it has always shown an in-SLOT downgrade. |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yes different letter please  ... sure N is for New ... New as in never ever installed and definately not on your harddrive now. Use S or something |
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Cicero
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Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| NU? |
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cederberg
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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A little bit on the confusing side, no? How about this:
| Code: | Install first-time: [ N ]
Install slotted: [ N S]
Update unslotted: [ U ]
Update slotted: [ U S]
Downgrade unslotted: [ UD ]
Downgrade slotted: [ UDS] <- this is weird... |
But there are probably more cases here that I didn't think of. And one might want to see more info about the slots... And someone has probably already filed an RFE on this... So why am I writing this?  |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think [ N S] should ever happen. Even if that is what is 'really' going on users shouldn't know. All they know is that what they want to emerge is 'New' for them -- would it even be possible to get an 'S' for that!?.
Perhaps the UD and UDS need to be simplified to just D and DS perhaps?
Downgrades imply an 'U'pdate anyhow really ... |
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cederberg
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesse wrote: | | I don't think [ N S] should ever happen. Even if that is what is 'really' going on users shouldn't know. All they know is that what they want to emerge is 'New' for them -- would it even be possible to get an 'S' for that!?. |
Clarification: I meant this for installing a package that you've already got, but in another slot. I.e. what this thread is all about.
If you simplify UD to just D there is no difference to a plain delete... |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| cederberg wrote: | | Jesse wrote: | | I don't think [ N S] should ever happen. Even if that is what is 'really' going on users shouldn't know. All they know is that what they want to emerge is 'New' for them -- would it even be possible to get an 'S' for that!?. |
Clarification: I meant this for installing a package that you've already got, but in another slot. I.e. what this thread is all about.
If you simplify UD to just D there is no difference to a plain delete... |
Wait ... emerge shows a 'Delete' operation by a letter?! Wow I've never seen it, hmph! I feel inadequate now ...
Hmmm, I still think, the 'N' should not be used to indicate an 'Update' because of some 'Slot' change. It's my understanding that slots allow for different versions of packages e.g., qt 3.x and qt 4.x ... in that case, and in that case only!!!!, would I possibly expect to see the [N S] now that I think about it. That makes sense. qt 4 is not installed so the 'N' and it is indeed a slot update because qt 3 is already there.
But in most cases the S would not be needed with a N. Is that understanding correct now? So is that correct that in my case 2.6.0-test8 is _really_ differnt than the test7 I have installed that would merit a new slot? The same with xine-lib-rc1 ? |
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cederberg
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesse wrote: | | Wait ... emerge shows a 'Delete' operation by a letter?! Wow I've never seen it, hmph! I feel inadequate now ... |
Now that you're saying it... Me neither... And thinking about it, it ought to be impossible... Looks like I'm just seriously mixed up in my head right now, sorry...  (Trying to do too many things at once.)
| Jesse wrote: | | But in most cases the S would not be needed with a N. Is that understanding correct now? So is that correct that in my case 2.6.0-test8 is _really_ differnt than the test7 I have installed that would merit a new slot? The same with xine-lib-rc1 ? |
Correct. Kernels always install in a new slot, so it would be NS if you already had some version installed, otherwise N. I also recall some issue with xine-lib compability, so that's why rc1 has it's own little slot. |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| cederberg wrote: | | Jesse wrote: | | But in most cases the S would not be needed with a N. Is that understanding correct now? So is that correct that in my case 2.6.0-test8 is _really_ differnt than the test7 I have installed that would merit a new slot? The same with xine-lib-rc1 ? |
Correct. Kernels always install in a new slot, so it would be NS if you already had some version installed, otherwise N. I also recall some issue with xine-lib compability, so that's why rc1 has it's own little slot. |
Ah ok, well it's settled then Maybe later today, if it has not already been filed, I'll put in a bugzilla wishlist for portage to incorporate an 'S' as you described above. With the modification to your update rules that I suggested too. Unless you wana do it of course |
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Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 9526
Location: beyond the rim
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| If you make a bug report about this it would probably just marked as a dupe of 4698 (I made a report including a patch about that in the past), which deals with the bigger SLOT problems. |
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cederberg
Guru
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 349
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesse wrote: | | Ah ok, well it's settled then Maybe later today, if it has not already been filed, I'll put in a bugzilla wishlist for portage to incorporate an 'S' as you described above. With the modification to your update rules that I suggested too. Unless you wana do it of course |
Sorry to disappoint you, but the simple ideas have always been taken by someone else. This one by none other than Genone. See his signature above or the bug he filed three months ago... |
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Jesse
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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cool, at least there's a report about it. Doesnt matter if it has my name on it or not. It's all for the good of Gentoo
Perhaps, I'll just 'ack' the bug report to nudge it along but if it's already been discussed to death then I won't add useless 'me too' comments. |
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