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Gentoo is exclusively for developers!!! (Users can piss off)
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rokstar83 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I dont use gentoo (apart from on my laptop) but I also still love it. If I was the only person who felt this way then I would be the only person saying anything and this would be the only thread.


I love gentoo too, in fact its the only distro I use for all three of my machines. And I know your not the only person and this isn't the only thread, that wasn't my point. My point is that there are plenty of threads out there about why the relations are sucky and very few about how to fix. I know you have tried in the past but what i'm failing to see is how one more of these is suppose to help. Believe me i'm all for full disclosure, but there comes a point where these types of things only drive people further away in both camps.

Gentoo's community is bar none the best i've encountered. Yes its my primary distro but i've tried others and found getting help was a royal pain. Answers to questions here and in #gentoo are answered quickly and usually with more information than was required, with almost no RTFM responses. Its got the best maintained forums i've seen ever, (people complain about it but its about as wank free as you can get). And it also seems to have an extraordinarily strong base in terms of users trying to help/offer opinions. I don't think it should come as a surprise that the two groups butt heads a lot. You put a bunch of really passionate people together in a room and your bound to find disagreements. Personally I think its awesome because the base is so much less oriented towards creating a single solution but geared towards offering tons of solutions. Are the problems in certain areas? Yeah probably. Is there room for improvement? I'm sure. But this to me seems counter productive. And please in no way interpret this as me thinking you shouldn't have said it, i'm just wondering how this is going to help.
I agree with you, I'm just trying to get the communication a bit better, sometimes it's like hitting your head on a brick wall.

People saw there was a problem so things were set up but some/most still ignored it. This was a thread in -dev today and it showed that some (tsunam and hkBst) suggested some things. Funnily enough, the only person who tried to shoot it down was ciaranm... http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_147091.xml
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the original post, but Gentoo is not for the developers as individuals, rather developers as "users". Users that happen to be developers. At least that was my interpretation of something I read a long time ago about why Gentoo existed.
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sundialsvc4
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly don't know if any Linux distribution is going to be "friendly to newbies," and there's one simple reason for that . . .

If you use Linux, then you are going to have to both install and maintain an operating-system! There isn't going to be a "Geek Squad" to help you.

If you think about it, anytime you use Microsoft Win-doze, the OS is already installed for you, and the updates as well. The operating-system software is already fully-prepared for whatever hardware you've got. You can get used to that. And if you "take the plunge" into Linux you might not be prepared for its absence.
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundialsvc4 wrote:
I honestly don't know if any Linux distribution is going to be "friendly to newbies," and there's one simple reason for that . . .

If you use Linux, then you are going to have to both install and maintain an operating-system! There isn't going to be a "Geek Squad" to help you.

If you think about it, anytime you use Microsoft Win-doze, the OS is already installed for you, and the updates as well. The operating-system software is already fully-prepared for whatever hardware you've got. You can get used to that. And if you "take the plunge" into Linux you might not be prepared for its absence.


So all that needs to be done is buy an ubuntu box from dell, and convince them to setup an update weekly to make it pretty much the same thing? Wow, that would require a whole, what, 1 line in a crontab?
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geforce
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread makes me rather sad. :(



I've been recommending Gentoo to whoever ask for a good linux distro and I use it myself on most of my machines.

I can tell that some companies in my city uses Gentoo on prod. servers and clients...

Even if Gentoo isn't perfect, I love how it feels to work in it. The init scripts, portage, shell, etc..



So everyone just make fuc**** peace and continue to make gentoo better and better !

And that's not like you have any choice :twisted:
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

geforce wrote:
This thread makes me rather sad. :(



I've been recommending Gentoo to whoever ask for a good linux distro and I use it myself on most of my machines.

I can tell that some companies in my city uses Gentoo on prod. servers and clients...

Even if Gentoo isn't perfect, I love how it feels to work in it. The init scripts, portage, shell, etc..



So everyone just make fuc**** peace and continue to make gentoo better and better !

And that's not like you have any choice :twisted:


The problem isn't so much (right now, anyways) the product (which is improving after a period of some degredation, mostly in the performance department), but in the attitude and the people behind it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was only trying to encourage you fellow Gentoo users && devs !!

:( :(
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runningwithscissors
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debian has flame-happy developers like Gentoo (by an order of magnitude, more) but it's been chugging along nicely. This whole 'community' thing is overrated anyway. The majority of us are asocial nerds anyway, so the not-so-successful efforts at forming a community aren't surprising at all.
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

runningwithscissors wrote:
Debian has flame-happy developers like Gentoo (by an order of magnitude, more) but it's been chugging along nicely. This whole 'community' thing is overrated anyway. The majority of us are asocial nerds anyway, so the not-so-successful efforts at forming a community aren't surprising at all.
Yeah. It spawned Ubuntu. Its doing great :roll:
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

runningwithscissors wrote:
The majority of us are asocial nerds anyway, so the not-so-successful efforts at forming a community aren't surprising at all.


That's probably somewhat true, but it distracts from real progress, everything moves faster and smoother when everyone is working together.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the original post, but Gentoo is not for the developers as individuals, rather developers as "users". Users that happen to be developers. At least that was my interpretation of something I read a long time ago about why Gentoo existed.


And that is why I have stayed out of this thread (damb you for breaking that :D )
As far as I have seen in this thread a link to said comment has not been provided, even though it has been requested a few times
.

Individual comments are near on useless without some surrounding info of where it was provided.
Sure this dev may be being a jackass, HE also could of been making a statement as part of a discussion which then makes his statement a very profound one.
Without context it is meaningless. Likewise his mother tongue is probably not english, thus what he meant to write and what was written may be different (the difference being screaming arrogance or a profound statement.

I reserve judgement
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
pjp wrote:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the original post, but Gentoo is not for the developers as individuals, rather developers as "users". Users that happen to be developers. At least that was my interpretation of something I read a long time ago about why Gentoo existed.


And that is why I have stayed out of this thread (damb you for breaking that :D )
As far as I have seen in this thread a link to said comment has not been provided, even though it has been requested a few times
.

Individual comments are near on useless without some surrounding info of where it was provided.
Sure this dev may be being a jackass, HE also could of been making a statement as part of a discussion which then makes his statement a very profound one.
Without context it is meaningless. Likewise his mother tongue is probably not english, thus what he meant to write and what was written may be different (the difference being screaming arrogance or a profound statement.

I reserve judgement
The original post
And he is American
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slycordinator
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see what the big deal is with what the guy said.

He essentially said that gentoo is a distro that's been geared towards devs and that other people use the stuff they developed because those people like the stuff they saw.

This thread is an overreaction due to a misunderstanding. The guy wasn't saying "users: they can go F- themselves" like you've implied.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slycordinator wrote:
I don't see what the big deal is with what the guy said.

He essentially said that gentoo is a distro that's been geared towards devs and that other people use the stuff they developed because those people like the stuff they saw.

This thread is an overreaction due to a misunderstanding. The guy wasn't saying "users: they can go F- themselves" like you've implied.
Quote:
Gentoo's always been exclusively for the developers.

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slycordinator
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you say "hyperbole"?
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slycordinator wrote:
Can you say "hyperbole"?
is that like hypermole but without his trusty sidekick bolly?
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slycordinator wrote:
The guy wasn't saying "users: they can go F- themselves" like you've implied.


No. Thats the tone that comes across from a good portion of the dev community.
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plbe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American
you prejudice bastard...
I know you can't help it ;)
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Earthwings
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...

This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthwings wrote:
plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American
you prejudice bastard...
This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.
Earthwings, that was a personal joke, please un-ban him, pretty please...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthwings wrote:
plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...

This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.


OH NO! Where will we get our unexplained links?!
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Zepp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrismcdirty wrote:
Earthwings wrote:
plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...

This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.


OH NO! Where will we get our unexplained links?!


Earthwings kill -9'ed plbe-bot :'(
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthwings wrote:
plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...

This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.

I think that was a bit overkill. It was a joke...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earthwings wrote:
plbe wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
And he is American


you prejudice bastard...

This forum is not a place for personal attacks - see guidelines. Banned from OTW.


cokehabit wrote:
Naib wrote:
As far as I have seen in this thread a link to said comment has not been provided, even though it has been requested a few times
.

Individual comments are near on useless without some surrounding info of where it was provided.
Sure this dev may be being a jackass, HE also could of been making a statement as part of a discussion which then makes his statement a very profound one.
Without context it is meaningless. Likewise his mother tongue is probably not english, thus what he meant to write and what was written may be different (the difference being screaming arrogance or a profound statement.

I reserve judgement
The original post
And he is American
As plbe quoted cokehabit way out of context here, it seems obvious (at least to me) that he wasn't being serious or offensive, just taking the piss.
While i agree that personal attacks deserve a ban, this just doesn't read as one at all.

I don't mean to challenge the mods or anything, but this ban just seems wrong.
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