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Maz
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested as well.
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ManiakBob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:52 am    Post subject: Ready for action Reply with quote

Very interested in that ! I tried some time to work on that, but I gave up, so this is the right occasion to give it a try (again).

Regards,
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
HURD is still very young


Isn't HURD older than Linux ;)?
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Priareos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:03 pm    Post subject: I'm interested Reply with quote

I've just installed gentoo yesterday, but I still have some place and will for a hurd version of it. Great idea.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
HURD is still very young


Isn't HURD older than Linux ;)?


The kernel isn't.. other rather it hasn't been actively developed for quite as long time as Linux has... (here we are counting developers time, not actual time.. HURD has what... 10 active developers on a good day - Linux has what... 5-10 times that?)
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humpback
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:

The kernel isn't.. other rather it hasn't been actively developed for quite as long time as Linux has... (here we are counting developers time, not actual time.. HURD has what... 10 active developers on a good day - Linux has what... 5-10 times that?)


The number of developers says little about the code... Look at the quality of the Microsoft code.... And they have 100-1000 coders more than hurd on a good day (Monday to Friday 9am-5pm),
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely interested. I'd been looking into HURD lately, and wondering how the hell to get it working with Gentoo. :)
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daysleper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm intrested.

But the partition limits in Hurd makes it kinda unusable and I need my spare old PC for storage and routing besides experimenting. :?
I'll install as soon as they fix this or as soon as I know enough to fix it myself. heh :)
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zhenlin
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy enough to fix, just figure out how to modify it so that it isn't mmap()ed into memory. Or start thinking about segmented 36-bit addressing...
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avenj
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone feels like fixing it, all of that is in libdiskfs... the Hurd developers would love you :)
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plate
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avenj, what happened to your changelog? A few days ago it still had a link off your page, but now it's gone. Any secret developments you're withholding from us? :P Glad to see you're not alone in this effort anymore, by the way... :D
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avenj
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plate wrote:
avenj, what happened to your changelog? A few days ago it still had a link off your page, but now it's gone. Any secret developments you're withholding from us? :P Glad to see you're not alone in this effort anymore, by the way... :D


Right now, I'm far less involved in it than Blafasel. Since he was doing most of the work, I couldn't keep my changelog updated accordingly. I took it down temporarily (until I get more involved again).

(Real life picked up at an inconvienent time and sucked up most of my free time)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zhenlin wrote:
The Linux Kernel is messy, but efficient. The HURD servers and Mach microkernel are neat but inefficient. It takes 2 seconds to do a ping to localhost in HURD! But I don't mind that, since it is beyond controllable circumstances. (Message passing is slow since it involves at least 1 memcpy(), not to mention the reciever may not respond!)


I have never seen it take two seconds to ping localhost, or my gateway or my server sitting five hops away for that matter ... some people have reported problems with RTL8139A NIC's, but that chip is known to be error prone. I don't know what kind of card you have, or if you've even tried the Hurd, but your statement is a bit misleading to others.

Code:

hurd:~/src/python# traceroute gnufans.org
traceroute to gnufans.org (193.41.214.66), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 0.323 ms 0.445 ms 0.303 ms
 2  213.214.225.1 (213.214.225.1)  0.923 ms  1.009 ms  0.833 ms
 3  217.150.71.33 (217.150.71.33)  68.880 ms  7.804 ms  83.069 ms
 4  192.168.16.34 (192.168.16.34)  1.382 ms  1.400 ms  1.721 ms
 5  217.150.70.194 (217.150.70.194)  1.533 ms  10.921 ms  1.561 ms
 6  gnufans.org (193.41.214.66)  53.740 ms  1.474 ms  1.308 ms
hurd:~/src/python# ping -c 5 gnufans.org
PING gnufans.org (193.41.214.66): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 193.41.214.66: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=10.000 ms
64 bytes from 193.41.214.66: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=0.000 ms
64 bytes from 193.41.214.66: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=0.000 ms
64 bytes from 193.41.214.66: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=0.000 ms
64 bytes from 193.41.214.66: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=0.000 ms
--- gnufans.org ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.000/2.000/10.000/4.000 ms
hurd:~/src/python#


Regarding the message passing, well you're right that it takes at least a memcpy, but that's what you get when data in Linux is passed from userspace to kernel space - and if the receiver doesn't answer, then perhaps you failed looking up the server correctly?

/Joachim
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dmmgentoo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avenj wrote:
gsfgf wrote:
could i just drop in a hurd kernel w/ linux emulation(like BSD) and run it just like another linux kernel?.
Will existing packages build under hurd or will there need to be an all new portage tree?
Is there an article outlining the current state of Hurd v. Linux?


Quote:
What about gentoo BSD? That would be cool.


Someone was actually working on a Gentoo/NetBSD thingo. That's much tougher due to a totally different userland. GNU/Linux and GNU/Hurd have mostly the same userland (in terms of a GNU base system).


NetBSD? I was thinking about something FreeBSD-based myself, but that could be yet another Gentoo. :) The main problem, of course, is tracking all the updates on FreeBSD's CVS mirrors, because the entire userland is committed to. There is no separation of userland/kernel in the BSD's -- you get the whole tree updated at once. Of course, someone could track which utlities in the userland were updated, like for example, src/bin/ps, src/bin/pwd, etc. Also, another problem is that you've got a strong dependence of userland on the kernel in the BSD's. For example, sometimes when you build the FreeBSD kernel, you've got to update libkvm, ps, top, and w as well. The one nice thing about the Gentoo approach to the BSD's is that you wouldn't need to do a whopping make buildworld buildkernel when just a few of the userland components and kernel were updated. You'd simply do an emerge -u system, for example.

Another issue is that the emerge system could decide if some bootstrapping were necessary. For example, during a make world, boostrapping takes place every time, prolonging the process, and depending on what bits were committed to the /usr/src tree, a bootstrap may or may not be necessary. Someone would have to keep track of that. Portage would have do decide what exactly it has to bootstrap depending on what bits of userland/kernel were updated.

One document that might be of interested to those getting a BSD port of Gentoo started is the document "FreeBSD from scratch".

http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200302/fbsdscratch.html

The interesting thing about having a FreeBSD Gentoo distro is that FreeBSD is itself a complete distro/kernel updated all at once. But when individual components are seperated out from the userland, FreeBSD becomes not unlike a software development "company" or organization, much like GNU. And if the Gentoo/FreeBSD developers do some fixes on some code, the changes would be submitted back to the "company", i.e., the FreeBSD project. But most of all, Gentoo/FreeBSD would have a nice ports system, alternative to its existing /usr/ports.

Of course, I'd have to port NetBSD's fdisk to FreeBSD (or create a new one from scratch), because the fdisk step is an important install step in getting Gentoo bootstrapped. A disklabel command would be required, too, although that can be merged into the "new" fdisk utility.
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zhenlin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know its related to the HURD or Mach, not the softhardware (VMware). I get 20ms pings on Linux on VMware. It is probably related to the drivers. I love microkernels, just not when it doesn't work well.

I also have a small problem with the merging of / and /usr.

By the way, I am not pinging localhost, I am pinging the host system.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:27 pm    Post subject: gentoo hurd Reply with quote

i know i am a bit late in this subject, but i have some spare machines (i am a sysadmin in my university at brasil) and i can give a shot in some (really) old machine :-)

if you have more information, or a boot/root image diskets and a initial tar.gz, i can go on by myself to try a gentoo hurd :-)

some time ago i had installed a debian gnu hurd in a spare partition on my hard disk, but since i need this partition, my experience with hurd has stoped :-(

if i could restart my experiments with gentoo hurd, i would get very pleased :-)
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emil
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After installing Debian's Hurd distribution on a spare partition I discovered this thread, so I would certainly be interested in a Gentoo Hurd.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I'm interested as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

humpback wrote:
Look at the quality of the Microsoft code....


Ok, how do I "emerge 2k-sources" ??? :-)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I'm interested. I have 2 spare machines
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have a basic stage1 up and running sometime next week. Hopefully people can
start playing with that sometime next week. I'm going to need help verifying which ebuild
work on Hurd and which ones need slight modification.

Most of the orignal people who were working on this don't have time, it looks like life
caught up with them, so I started working on my own Gentoo GNU/Hurd project. This isn't
currnetly and official gentoo project.

When I get it up and running its going to be avaible on hurd.rustedhalo.net

If people want to discuss what I'm doing or volunter to help out you can join
#gentoo-hurd on irc.freenode.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone started to work on the migration of Mach to L4 in Hurd? I'm not a programmer myself, but I would love to see a distro with Hurd and second generation microkenel implementation like Hazelnut or Pistachio. But it will take an eon I guess. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

L4 port already in progress: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/related-projects.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has there been any more progress on this? The websites listed in this thread appear to be down - are there any mirrors that I can download an ISO from to test Gentoo-hurd out?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was wondering about gentoo/HURD, just out of interest. then i read on here somewhere from someone calling it vapourware. But good to see it's being worked on ! grats, and no hurry :lol:
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