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Would you like to see Gentoo branding in your favorite applications? Would you want that option on or off by default?
Yes, I would like to see Gentoo branding in my applications. I prefer the feature to be on by default.
19%
 19%  [ 47 ]
Yes, I would like to see Gentoo branding in my applications. I prefer the feature to be off by default.
44%
 44%  [ 108 ]
No, there's no need for Gentoo branding in my applications. In any case, if it gets implemented, I prefer the feature to be on by default.
1%
 1%  [ 4 ]
No, there's no need for Gentoo branding in my applications. In any case, if it gets implemented, I prefer the feature to be off by default.
26%
 26%  [ 64 ]
I refuse the idea of branding altogether.
7%
 7%  [ 17 ]
I have something else to say. (Post comments below)
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 241

Author Message
Deathwing00
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Gentoo branding on Desktop Environments and Applications Reply with quote

Hi fellow users!

An idea of common Gentoo branding on various applications has emerged. Before proceeding with design contests and stuff like that, I'd like to ask you if you would prefer those branding Gentoo images to be on by default or off by default.

If we want branding on by default, the ebuilds will make use of the 'vanilla' USE flag. If the 'vanilla' USE flag is not set, branding will get installed.
On the other hand, if we want branding off by default, ebuilds will check whether the 'branding' use flag is enabled.

Remember that both flags 'vanilla' and 'branding' are turned off by default.
Please, be so kind to think carefully about your choice and post your comments.

I'm also interested to know whether you would use branding or not.

Additionally, if you are using KDE, please be so kind to review bug #157519.


Last edited by Deathwing00 on Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off by default. Maybe we can ditch the fugly 'g' logo...
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Conan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USE="branding"++

much smoother transistion, makes sense for it to be opt in instead of everything just changing.
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idler
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to get branded. Fine by me if someone wants to see all the trouble to get it going and keep it going, but I dont need nor like it.
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peka
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

branding flag is already in use on openoffice and gnome-session
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Kloeri
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo branding on Desktop Environments and Applications Reply with quote

Deathwing00 wrote:
Hi fellow users!

An idea of common Gentoo branding on various applications has emerged. Before proceeding with design contests and stuff like that, I'd like to ask you if you would prefer those branding Gentoo images to be on by default or off by default.

If we want branding on by default, the ebuilds will make use of the 'vanilla' USE flag. If the 'vanilla' USE flag is not set, branding will get installed.
On the other hand, if we want branding off by default, ebuilds will check whether the 'branding' use flag is enabled.


This would actually be abuse of the vanilla flag and you only need the branding USE-flag anyway (vanilla USE flag disables patches on packages supporting it).

This can all be supported by the branding flag which can be enabled or disabled by users regardless of any default value in profiles.

And I'd definitely like branding to be off by default :)
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fb
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for having branding but it being off by default.
I guess I like the idea of some branding but not really everywhere.
Until OOo-2.0.4, OOo was automatically branded - and it is not
an intrusive branding as it only appears on the splash screen
(as far as I have noticed). To me branding a splash screen is
fine. What I don't really want is a "gentoo menu" in kde a la suse.

In short I like the idea of branding so long as it is not intrusive.
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96140
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck yeah. I love Gentoo branding. I've loved it since the day I emerged Gnome a couple of years ago (long before becoming a developer) and was treated to the nice splash screen. Same goes for all the fun gensplash/bootsplash/grubsplash images available. Why should I run a plain, boring, vanilla desktop when I can beautify it, show my support for Gentoo, as well as show it off to others?

I notice that this poll doesn't really change anything, as the branding USE flag seems to be universally disabled by default for all applications that use it. I'd prefer that branding be on by default, even though it doesn't seem to be at the moment. But at least it's available as an option.

Oh, and I don't buy the argument that "a boring, vanilla, completely unremarkable desktop indistinguishable from any other distro" somehow "enhances productivity." Really, it's not like a single Gentoo logo in place of the Gnome foot or KDE kicker is distracting eyecandy. That's about as much as Gentoo brands things, anyway, so it clearly doesn't get in the way.

Actually, it's too bad that the default Gnome icon theme doesn't replace the foot with a Gentoo "g"; maybe we can get the ebuild patched with branding USE support. I'd like to see it replaced with something less ambiguous than a freakin' foot. ;)
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CondorDes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the things I like about Gentoo is that it generally tries to push changes upstream, and keep as close to upstream packages as possible. It really annoys me when distros start trying to add their own cruft on top of other packages, even something as simple as branding. In my opinion, this only adds bloat for very little gain. Plus, I no longer know if I'm working with something that came from Gentoo, or something that came from upstream.
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jhgz1
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inclusion of splash screens and such by default should be nice. A quick note in the desktop documentation resources should be sufficient to make folks who prefer a vanilla-looking environment aware of the branding use flag. I'd draw the line at the icon set, which is really in need of a makeover imo.

That reminds me, do we actually have some sort of color palettes (especially in light of wwwredesign) documented anywhere? The KDE folks created really nice palettes, see here.
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96140
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure we do. As you can see, we use purple and white. ;)
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geniux
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will probably never use it but other might want too, so no for my applications but if it gets implemented it should be off by default
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ecatmur
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"branding" USE flag: :D
"vanilla" USE flag: :evil: - vanilla has a different meaning, as above. Also, using "vanilla" like that is effectively a "noXXX" USE flag, which as we all know is a very very bad thing.

Instead of "vanilla", just use IUSE="+branding" (that is, if pkginternal USE flags are allowed in the tree yet). Though I don't see why a package would need to have Gentoo branding on by default.

A side note: making more packages capable of carrying Gentoo branding will improve life for derived distributions, as all they need to do to put their own branding in is to replace Gentoo images with their own and set USE="branding" globally.
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Deathwing00
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback so far.

In reference to one of the previous comments, no, we didn't have in the plan to create a Gentoo menu. The idea is simple, just add some Gentoo branding to the applications, that is to say, splashscreens, loading images, login managers (some of them already provide gentoo branding). I do see that the branding option turned off would be the liked choice so far.

As a side note, the goal is to integrate all branding of all applications, that is, that all applications have an homogeneous theme.

For instance, have KDE, Gnome and OpenOffice with a similar look that clearly identifies the system as a Gentoo one. Currently every possible piece of application that has Gentoo branding, does not correspond with the rest.

So far, I am amused at the fact that most Gentoo developers do support the idea on the other hand.

Finally, someone commented above that it would be adding unecessary stuff to be downloaded. Well, I have to say that the idea is that branding comes in a separate tarball (as is obvious) and only gets downloaded if the branding use flag is turned on.

Keep the feedback fluid :)
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Flyser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brandings would be cool and combined with a vanilla or branding useflag there would be no problem for users who dont like that, which fits perfectly in the Gentoo Philosophy :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like gentoo branding, make it default :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo branding on Desktop Environments and Applications Reply with quote

Kloeri wrote:

This would actually be abuse of the vanilla flag and you only need the branding USE-flag anyway (vanilla USE flag disables patches on packages supporting it).

This can all be supported by the branding flag which can be enabled or disabled by users regardless of any default value in profiles.

And I'd definitely like branding to be off by default :)


+++
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96140
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deathwing00 wrote:
So far, I am amused at the fact that most Gentoo developers do support the idea on the other hand.

I love my branding. :) Note, however, that branding is pretty much already off in all default package installations, so I doubt that this status quo would be changed. It's not hard to enable it, which is all that I really ask.
Quote:
Finally, someone commented above that it would be adding unecessary stuff to be downloaded. Well, I have to say that the idea is that branding comes in a separate tarball (as is obvious) and only gets downloaded if the branding use flag is turned on.

A good example is the gnome-session ebuild. Here are the relevant snippets:
Code:

SRC_URI="${SRC_URI}
                 branding? ( mirror://gentoo/gentoo-splash.png )"
IUSE="branding"

src_install() {
        # Our own splash for world domination
        if use branding ; then
                insinto /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/
                doins ${DISTDIR}/gentoo-splash.png
        fi
}

Note that the branding USE flag must be turned on to download the replacement splash image, and is then enabled later during the install phase.
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mark_alec
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than having branding in each application, I would prefer to have consistant theming across desktops/boot managers/display managers etc.

We discussed such a thing recently in #gentoo-desktop, and it seems that with some motivation a theme like lila could emerge for all gentoo.
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rhill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this has been discussed many many times before, always with the same result: one of our primary policies in Gentoo is to keep our packages as close to upstream as possible. patches that add features or functionality are supposed to be sent upstream for inclusion, rather than being implemented in our tree, and brandings fall under this.

i'm not saying i don't like the idea, because i do. just letting you know about some of the resistance you might get (although judging from the dev replies in this thread it might be less than i think :wink:).

check out these threads for more info:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/23973/focus=23989
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/37238/focus=37238
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/18346/focus=18346
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runningwithscissors
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't particularly care, as long as I can turn it off. If it is indeed worth the time and effort, go for it.

I never really liked the branding thing that Ubuntu and SuSE did, slapping their logo on almost everything.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No thanks. I use a Gentoo bootsplash theme because I like it, and it seems right to have distro boot branding (as with Ubuntu), but anything else irritates the hell out of me. I don't like the Gentoo GNOME splash screen, I wouldn't like Gentoo icons, and a Gentoo theme? Urgh. The same goes for my Ubuntu system by the way, as they have an unhealthy like of strange oranges and browns for their branding.

I probably wouldn't mind it too much if I actually liked the Gentoo artwork, but except for the 2006.0 and 2006.1 LiveCD splash themes I find most of it horribly ugly.

At the very least it needs to be turn-offable.
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yngwin
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I like the idea of Gentoo branding. It adds to the identity of the distro we love to use. Certainly it should be optional, as that fits best with Gentoo philosophy. So yes to the branding USE flag. Again personally, I would want this enabled by default, but I can understand the choice for disabling it by default that many seem to prefer. I hope we can get some professional designers to work on a unified set of splash screens and icons that will be pleasing and unobtrusive.
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phajdan.jr
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtyepic wrote:
this has been discussed many many times before, always with the same result: one of our primary policies in Gentoo is to keep our packages as close to upstream as possible. patches that add features or functionality are supposed to be sent upstream for inclusion, rather than being implemented in our tree, and brandings fall under this.


No problem here. It is possible to create additional package, kde-gentoo-branding for example, and make our "target" package depend on it when "branding" USE-flag is set.
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mark_alec
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_ph wrote:
No problem here. It is possible to create additional package, kde-gentoo-branding for example, and make our "target" package depend on it when "branding" USE-flag is set.

I would go one step further and separate the branding/theme packages completely from the base package (if possible). So `USE="kde emerge" gentoo-branding` will build 'n install the kde-related gentoo branding/themes.
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