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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

Your local gentoo-dev archives.

Right, nothing has been written.

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.
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ferringb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

Your local gentoo-dev archives.

Right, nothing has been written.

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.

There's not much to find. A RFC on configuration protection 2 months back isn't much; config protect while nice, isn't exactly a core aspect of ebuild support; even with, there still is variation in the support (deviating from what y'all proposed iirc also).
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ferringb wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

Your local gentoo-dev archives.

Right, nothing has been written.

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.

There's not much to find. A RFC on configuration protection 2 months back isn't much; config protect while nice, isn't exactly a core aspect of ebuild support; even with, there still is variation in the support (deviating from what y'all proposed iirc also).

Big difference between that and nothing.
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pilla
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.


I've searched for "Package Manager Specification" in my gentoo-dev folder and found nothing. Maybe you're being inaccurate about its name?

If I look hard enough, will I find a document that does not exist?
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ferringb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
ferringb wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

Your local gentoo-dev archives.

Right, nothing has been written.

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.

There's not much to find. A RFC on configuration protection 2 months back isn't much; config protect while nice, isn't exactly a core aspect of ebuild support; even with, there still is variation in the support (deviating from what y'all proposed iirc also).

Big difference between that and nothing.

True, although considering y'all rely on PALUDIS_EBUILD_OVERRIDE_CONFIG_PROTECT_* to actually match long standing behaviour (something left out of your RFC), the difference between 'nothing' there is rather trivial; spec put forward by you, and it's inconsistant across the managers as to how CONFIG_PROTECT actually is controllable for unmerges...

Point is, a manager can follow your one and only 'PMS' and still get differing results in configuration protection. Further, could follow that one spec, and still not support ebuilds, since CONFIG_PROTECT is a total seperate mechanism.

Ebuild spec, sure, I'd listen in; would require ironing out that lingering version comparison difference issue you dislike however.
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ferringb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.


I've searched for "Package Manager Specification" in my gentoo-dev folder and found nothing. Maybe you're being inaccurate about its name?

If I look hard enough, will I find a document that does not exist?

Singular spec exists (with criticism of it in comments above), accessible via gmane archives.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

No, you just aren't looking hard enough.


I've searched for "Package Manager Specification" in my gentoo-dev folder and found nothing. Maybe you're being inaccurate about its name?

If I look hard enough, will I find a document that does not exist?

Try using the Google...
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pilla
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:

Try using the Google...


Google doesn't have access to my local gentoo-dev archive (yet).
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

Try using the Google...


Google doesn't have access to my local gentoo-dev archive (yet).

No, but it has access to several much more complete gentoo-dev archives...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:

No, but it has access to several much more complete gentoo-dev archives...


No kidding! So why would you want me to search my local archives if there are other much more complete over there?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilla wrote:
ciaranm wrote:

No, but it has access to several much more complete gentoo-dev archives...


No kidding! So why would you want me to search my local archives if there are other much more complete over there?

Hehehe. I just got it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get slightly back on topic, there is no council decision that says in any way that paludis or any other package manager besides Portage is supported on Gentoo. Once the whole specification foo is done and the council has decided that paludis is a supported package manager, we can have those threads in P&P, for the time being they should go to US.
Side note: If a it is a problem with installing the paludis ebuild via portage it should be fine in P&P unless the paludis folks prefer all paludis threads in the same forum.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amne wrote:
To get slightly back on topic, there is no council decision that says in any way that paludis or any other package manager besides Portage is supported on Gentoo.

Er, there's no council decision that says that Portage is supported, nor is there one that says that Paludis isn't.

Quote:
Once the whole specification foo is done and the council has decided that paludis is a supported package manager, we can have those threads in P&P, for the time being they should go to US.

Paludis is in the tree. Thus, it's supported.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Quote:
Once the whole specification foo is done and the council has decided that paludis is a supported package manager, we can have those threads in P&P, for the time being they should go to US.
Paludis is in[fecting] the tree. Thus, it's supported.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Quote:
Once the whole specification foo is done and the council has decided that paludis is a supported package manager, we can have those threads in P&P, for the time being they should go to US.
Paludis is in[fecting] the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Paludis is the cure, not the disease.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Quote:
Once the whole specification foo is done and the council has decided that paludis is a supported package manager, we can have those threads in P&P, for the time being they should go to US.
Paludis is in[fecting] the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Paludis is the cure, not the disease.
RPM is a bigger disease, can it cure that?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Er, there's no council decision that says that Portage is supported, nor is there one that says that Paludis isn't.
:roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is the cure, not the disease.

:roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:

Er, there's no council decision that says that Portage is supported, nor is there one that says that Paludis isn't.


Now, that quote could be put to good use in Wikipedia as an example of Sophism in the wild.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Get your facts straight. Being in the tree does in no way imply that a package is supported (cf. various kernel sources).

Using (as opposed to installing) paludis (a third party package manager) is more like using some of the third party (user driven) installation methods that float around the Unsupported Software forum. Hence, questions about its use belong in that forum, unless you have your own support infrastructure. Then we will gladly move all paludis related questions to Off the Wall.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallamej wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Get your facts straight. Being in the tree does in no way imply that a package is supported (cf. various kernel sources).

Means it's supported unless the maintainers state otherwise.

You know, it's really not up to you to decide what is or is not supported.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
kallamej wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Get your facts straight. Being in the tree does in no way imply that a package is supported (cf. various kernel sources).

Means it's supported unless the maintainers state otherwise.

You know, it's really not up to you to decide what is or is not supported.

No no, you said that being in the tree implies that something is supported, and I showed that that statement is incorrect. If the maintainers of the paludis ebuild support more than the installation of the package, they are free to provide that support in Unsupported Software.
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ciaranm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallamej wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
kallamej wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree. Thus, it's supported.

Get your facts straight. Being in the tree does in no way imply that a package is supported (cf. various kernel sources).

Means it's supported unless the maintainers state otherwise.

You know, it's really not up to you to decide what is or is not supported.

No no, you said that being in the tree implies that something is supported, and I showed that that statement is incorrect.

Which doesn't mean that Paludis is unsupported. So, I'll rephrase:

Paludis is in the tree, and the people maintaining the Paludis package haven't said it's unsupported. Thus, it's supported.

Quote:
If the maintainers of the paludis ebuild support more than the installation of the package, they are free to provide that support in Unsupported Software.

Why not move all questions about how to use KDE into Unsupported Software too?

Again, whether or not something is supported is not your decision.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree, and the people maintaining the Paludis package haven't said it's unsupported. Thus, it's supported.

Maybe you should try to write what you mean in the first place instead of spreading false statements.

ciaranm wrote:
Again, whether or not something is supported is not your decision.

Similarly, it's not your decision where questions related to third party installation methods belong.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kallamej wrote:
ciaranm wrote:
Paludis is in the tree, and the people maintaining the Paludis package haven't said it's unsupported. Thus, it's supported.

Maybe you should try to write what you mean in the first place instead of spreading false statements.

I'm sorry, I was assuming I was talking to sane people, not people who deliberately go around picking obscure holes to avoid addressing the issue at hand.

Quote:
ciaranm wrote:
Again, whether or not something is supported is not your decision.

Similarly, it's not your decision where questions related to third party installation methods belong.

Paludis is not a third party installation method.
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