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flak7
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: U10 or Blade 100 ? Reply with quote

I am fed up with my U5 (270MHz + 384 RAM + onboard IDE). I was trying to buy U10 with 440MHz + 512 (4*128) RAM, get extra USB 2.0 PCI card and connect IDE disk to it (through some IDE<->USB converter). Of course I would put old ("undead") 128Mb HD to sun IDE for boot up. Anyone tried that? If it won't work tell me!

Today I found nice Blade 100 (500Mhz +2*256 RAM). The question is which computer is better? I guess 440MHz (L2=2MB) is better then 500MHz (L2=256KB), but what about RAM? I don't know anything about Blade's RAM. Finally can anyone tell me anything about Blade's IDE controllers?



BTW: Can I put two disks to Blade 100?
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Weeve
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Blade 100's IDE controller isn't great. It's prone to data corruption if you turn DMA access on (under non-Solaris OSs) and IIRC, it's only UDMA 66.

That being said, I've had problems with USB 2.0 connected hard drives being detected on SPARC in the past, but its been a few releases of 2.6 since I've tested. I'll give it a try tonight and see what happens.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The U10 is basically the same as the U5 motherboard-wise. Both sport EDO ram.
The Blade 100 uses PC133 which is somewhat faster, thus offsets the reduced cache size, and it also has some USB 1.1 ports. It also uses USB HID for the keyboard/mouse, doesn't have a type5/6 serial port.
IDE-controller wise both are kind of screwed, dunno which one is more screwed, probably the u5/10 :)
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Weeve
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard drives using USB 2.0 enclosures appear to be detected and working just fine on an SMP Ultra 60 running vanilla-sources-2.6.17
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeve wrote:
Hard drives using USB 2.0 enclosures appear to be detected and working just fine on an SMP Ultra 60 running vanilla-sources-2.6.17


Thank you Weeve!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gust4voz wrote:
The U10 is basically the same as the U5 motherboard-wise. Both sport EDO ram.
The Blade 100 uses PC133 which is somewhat faster, thus offsets the reduced cache size, and it also has some USB 1.1 ports. It also uses USB HID for the keyboard/mouse, doesn't have a type5/6 serial port.
IDE-controller wise both are kind of screwed, dunno which one is more screwed, probably the u5/10 :)


So I guess that U10 will work as fast as Blade 100. I mean UltraSPARC IIi (L2=2MB) + EDO RAM = UltraSPARC IIe + PC133 RAM.


As far as I remember you have U5 with 440Mhz CPU and 512 RAM. Is it enough for daily work? I do not need a "roadrunner", but Gnome based secondary desktop (without much firecrackers).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For desktop use i'd go with the blade 100 probably - PC133 ram is much faster than EDO, you can think of EDO as if it were PC66 ram.
On the other hand the U10 has an UPA slot for a nice Creator card for example, which is likely faster than the onboard ati.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: U10 or Blade 100 ? Reply with quote

flak7 wrote:
get extra USB 2.0 PCI card and connect IDE disk to it (through some IDE<->USB converter).


.. Why? Just put a PCI IDE controller in. Should work.. (had better, that's what I'm doing with a U5)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The blade 100 can only hold two drives internally, so if you wanted more than two drives you'd have to go external. Plus one of the drives would have to use the onboard controller to boot from (unless you do some netboot tricks).

Also cable management in the Blade 100 when adding in a second controller can be a pain as the space is very cramped. I've thrown an OBP compatible SCSI controller in mine and running the SCSI cable for a SCSI drive and keeping it in place without crimping the wires isn't a lot of fun if you don't have nimble fingers :)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: U10 or Blade 100 ? Reply with quote

Monkeh wrote:
flak7 wrote:
get extra USB 2.0 PCI card and connect IDE disk to it (through some IDE<->USB converter).


.. Why? Just put a PCI IDE controller in. Should work.. (had better, that's what I'm doing with a U5)


IDE controller has poor bradwitch (comparing to SATA/SCSI). USB 2.0 bradwith is good enough to controll UDMA100 IDE disks (and have some extra bradwith free). If I would buy IDE controller and after some time decided to switch to SATA or SCSI, I would have to get new SATA/SCSI controller. In case of USB - only new converter (USB<-->X). Next very important feature is that USB has universal external sockets. You can plug to it video camera, pendrive or good USB mouse with wheel and keyboard. In my case it will be a KVM switch. The best thing is that USB 2.0 bradwith is good enough that external stuff will not slow down internal USB hd too much.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gust4voz wrote:
For desktop use i'd go with the blade 100 probably - PC133 ram is much faster than EDO, you can think of EDO as if it were PC66 ram.
On the other hand the U10 has an UPA slot for a nice Creator card for example, which is likely faster than the onboard ati.


THX
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: U10 or Blade 100 ? Reply with quote

flak7 wrote:
Monkeh wrote:
flak7 wrote:
get extra USB 2.0 PCI card and connect IDE disk to it (through some IDE<->USB converter).


.. Why? Just put a PCI IDE controller in. Should work.. (had better, that's what I'm doing with a U5)


IDE controller has poor bradwitch (comparing to SATA/SCSI). USB 2.0 bradwith is good enough to controll UDMA100 IDE disks (and have some extra bradwith free).


It's bandwidth. And I don't know where you're pulling that from.. This is a 160GB WD drive, PATA, first in my server on an IDE controller, and then in my external USB2 enclosure.

Code:
atlantis etc # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
 Timing cached reads:   1080 MB in  2.01 seconds = 538.63 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  142 MB in  3.02 seconds =  47.06 MB/sec

livecd / # hdparm -Tt /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 Timing cached reads: 2020 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1008.75 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 90MB in 3.04 seconds = 29.57 MB/sec


Quote:
Next very important feature is that USB has universal external sockets.


And? USB cards are good. HDDs on them are not.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: U10 or Blade 100 ? Reply with quote

Monkeh wrote:
flak7 wrote:
Monkeh wrote:
flak7 wrote:
get extra USB 2.0 PCI card and connect IDE disk to it (through some IDE<->USB converter).


.. Why? Just put a PCI IDE controller in. Should work.. (had better, that's what I'm doing with a U5)


IDE controller has poor bradwitch (comparing to SATA/SCSI). USB 2.0 bradwith is good enough to controll UDMA100 IDE disks (and have some extra bradwith free).


It's bandwidth. And I don't know where you're pulling that from.. This is a 160GB WD drive, PATA, first in my server on an IDE controller, and then in my external USB2 enclosure.

Code:
atlantis etc # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda

/dev/hda:
 Timing cached reads:   1080 MB in  2.01 seconds = 538.63 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  142 MB in  3.02 seconds =  47.06 MB/sec

livecd / # hdparm -Tt /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 Timing cached reads: 2020 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1008.75 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 90MB in 3.04 seconds = 29.57 MB/sec


Quote:
Next very important feature is that USB has universal external sockets.


And? USB cards are good. HDDs on them are not.


I mention max bradwith, sorry. Anyway I never realized that there can be such difference in actual bradwith between USB and IDE. All my IDE experience said that it can not be anything worser. Still if I'll pick up U10 I will install USB controller first (I need USB, IDE can wait a bit), in case of Blade 100 - IDE or cheap/used SCSI.
Thank you for useful info.
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