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rognvaldr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:53 pm    Post subject: How about jfs? Reply with quote

Hi all,

Personally, I am not quite satisfied with having to go Reiserfs as my Journaling file system, especially on my software RAID0 disks. Reiserfs eats cpu not just for breakfast, but for lunch, dinner, inbetween, etc... when software RAID already eats CPU...

Me coming from IBM AIX, I have always been very impressed with jfs' stabillity, fastness and kindness to the cpu...
Especially while many of us use ancient 2nd hand Sparcs at home, jfs would be a very welcome addition to Gentoo Sparc.

Rogn
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rognvaldr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I found out how to get the missing jfsutils on my Sparc. Turned out I just had to add ~sparc to jfsutils-1.1.3.ebuild.

More people must have known this/found this out, I'm sure. Any experiences with jfs on Sparc? Jfs on /?

Rogn
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bazik
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, I thought about putting JFS on my / too after I saw the filesystem benchmark on Slashdot today :)

Maybe I'll do it tomorrow...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't go with jfs unless you have battery-backed storage... But if you do, jfs rules...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I would have gotten money for every time I had heard or read unsubstantial claims about file systems I would have been a very wealthy man by now.

I have used jfs in AIX for years... because it was the default filesystem... I happily started using it when OS/2 started offering it in it's OS... and I've been a happy JFS-er on Linux since shortly after IBM released it into the free world(tm)... I have never ever had problems with it.
As coincidence would have it, I read the posting on /. shortly after I posted my question here. The benchmark results confirm what I 'knew allready'...

But, I'm using software RAID0 anyway... feeling lucky, I guess. Might as well try that JFS-thingy without battery backed storage. But, by all means, don't let me rob anyone's source of joy with any fs but JFS.

Rogn

Oh, by the way, I just tested it.. no problems so far.


ciaranm wrote:
I wouldn't go with jfs unless you have battery-backed storage... But if you do, jfs rules...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rognvaldr wrote:
Oh, by the way, I just tested it.. no problems so far.

Did you have any problems mounting the JFS partition? I am having the same problem documented here: http://www.mail-archive.com/jfs-discussion@www-124.ibm.com/msg00856.html. It doesn't seem JFS will work on SPARC64.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rognvaldr wrote:
If I would have gotten money for every time I had heard or read unsubstantial claims about file systems I would have been a very wealthy man by now.

I've seen several AIX jfs systems fall over when a bunch of FAStTs took a power hit. Wasn't pretty, ended up restoring from a TSM backup (which actually worked, surprisingly, no thanks to the first gen 3584). It's fine on ESS800Ts thanks to the NVRAM (so long as the boxes are UPS'ed), but I'd be wary about any filesystem that does memory cacheing (xfs is similar) if you can't guarantee clean shutdowns.

You might be lucky, or you might end up losing the FS. If you have decent backups it shouldn't be too much of a problem...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here, sadly. The 'Oh, by the way, I just tested it.. ' amounted to compiling jfsutils and running mkfs.jfs on a partition. I guess I was convinced the non-trivial stuff was out of the way now that jfsutils compiled cleanly out of the box and that I could actually create jfs file systems on my Sparc (oh the irony!).

Rogn



Blademan007 wrote:
rognvaldr wrote:
Oh, by the way, I just tested it.. no problems so far.

Did you have any problems mounting the JFS partition? I am having the same problem documented here: http://www.mail-archive.com/jfs-discussion@www-124.ibm.com/msg00856.html. It doesn't seem JFS will work on SPARC64.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to confuse memory caching with write caching. It's primary purpose is not to lose data over sudden power outages and other mishaps. Wouldn't be much of a jounaling file system if it did.
We've misused and abused our AIX's to a point where it wasn't funny anymore. It would take anything we'd throw at it. Of course the GPL'ed codebase that we're now using on Linux came from OS/2, not AIX (which now uses JFS2).

ciaranm wrote:
[snip]... but I'd be wary about any filesystem that does memory cacheing (xfs is similar) if you can't guarantee clean shutdowns.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm a little dissapointed with jfs and it's inability to recover after a simple powerloss durring a reboot.

The boot process has been here for half an hour

Code:

Phase 0 - Replay Journal Log
logredo failed (rc=-250) FSCK Continuing

Phase 1 - Check Blocks, Files/Directories, and Directory Entries.

...|....


I don't know what I should do, but I'm going to leave it until morning to see if it can get through all the files.

This system is a new MSI Motherboard with 2 80 Gig HDs with software RAID1. The idea was to have a stable fs for the RAID...now I'm wondering if I'd have been better off with Reiserfs.

Any ideas?

JR
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krigg wrote:

This system is a new MSI Motherboard with 2 80 Gig HDs with software RAID1. The idea was to have a stable fs for the RAID...now I'm wondering if I'd have been better off with Reiserfs.


If you havent noticed, this is the Sparc forum :)

I am running JFS just fine on my x86 and ReiserFS works great on my Sparc. So its the users choice and experience what to take. I had bad experience with XFS, so its a no-go for me.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any reason to use reiser (or jfs for that matter) over ext3? I'm using it on regular, hard-raided, and soft-raided partitions. Never lost power on these machines. They're on UPS's on clean power backed up by generators.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NewBlackDak wrote:
Is there any reason to use reiser (or jfs for that matter) over ext3? I'm using it on regular, hard-raided, and soft-raided partitions. Never lost power on these machines. They're on UPS's on clean power backed up by generators.


Different people will give you differnt answers to this question. Just try it out yourself, do some tests and use what you like best.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: some testing Reply with quote

So I've lately become distressed about the performance of the SCSI system in my pair of Ultra30's. Both boxes are setup with 512MB Ram, one is 2.4, one is 2.6. They run the symbios host adapter, and netapp (barracuda?) drives.

Vendor: NETAPP Model: X225_ST336704LC Rev: NA00
Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 03
target0:0:1: tagged command queuing enabled, command queue depth 16.
target0:0:1: Beginning Domain Validation
target0:0:1: asynchronous.
target0:0:1: wide asynchronous.
target0:0:1: FAST-20 WIDE SCSI 40.0 MB/s ST (50 ns, offset 16)
target0:0:1: Domain Validation skipping write tests
target0:0:1: Ending Domain Validation

On one of the boxes (2.4), I am running software raid 1 on each partition, each being ext3. This box showed really, really slow writes. So I just bailed on it, and went to the box that should be running faster, due to more optimizations I built into the kernel, no sw raid, etc.

So I went to my other box (2.6) running no sw raid, with an unused reiserfs partition on sdb1. Did some write and read tests...

# time dd if=/dev/zero of=./test bs=512 count=1000000 && echo && echo && time dd if=./test of=/dev/null

1000000+0 records in
1000000+0 records out
512000000 bytes (512 MB) copied, 59.5243 seconds, 8.6 MB/s

real 0m59.533s
user 0m4.152s
sys 0m49.603s


1000000+0 records in
1000000+0 records out
512000000 bytes (512 MB) copied, 19.0235 seconds, 26.9 MB/s

real 0m19.061s
user 0m5.884s
sys 0m11.229s

OUCH! My P3-500 w/ IDE is faster than this!

So I tried a million things, like changing the tagged queing crap, etc., etc.... No love. But a friend at Netapp looked at my iostat output during writes, and decided that it wasn't the drive being slow -- it was something in software. The CPU was hammered while the drive was reporting zero activity, then some writes, then more CPU bog-down, then some writes. This box has almost NO LOAD, so what's the deal? I thought -- maybe it's reiserfs. So I went to another partition, ext3. Writes were just as bad. So I dumped my /dev/sdb1 partition, and fired up JFS.

Woohoo!!

On the above test, writes jumped to 23 MB/s, and reads to 30 MB/s.

So on my two Ultra 30s, you can guess what FS I'm switching to across the board. Yes, I have battery backup.

Cheers,
Josh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, the first time you have to fsck your filesystem, you'll lose it all. Most of what is keeping is back in approving other filesystems in SPARCland are the fsutils, particularly on SPARC64.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeve wrote:
IIRC, the first time you have to fsck your filesystem, you'll lose it all. Most of what is keeping is back in approving other filesystems in SPARCland are the fsutils, particularly on SPARC64.

Let me ask this. Is the sparc dev team happy with the fsutils for any filesystem *other* than ext2/3? I'm actually looking to upgrade this ultra30 to 2.6, full nptlonly, with ext3 for /boot and /, and a dedicated reiser partition for mysql. I've been reading some good things about mysql-on-reiser, so I thought I'd give it a go. Also, I'll be running software raid1 throughout.

Weeve, since you're in Broomfield, I'm guessing you work at Sun. Ya?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tartan wrote:
Let me ask this. Is the sparc dev team happy with the fsutils for any filesystem *other* than ext2/3?

tmpfs works too.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squashfs-tools also works fine :D
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Linux jfs != AIX jfs. That is the fact. Linux jfs is the old (less powerful) version of jfs AIX is now using.

2. If someone needs full-proof data security, needs block-journal. Ext3/reiserfs/jfs (on Linux)/xfs are using meta-journal (economical version = speed/stability of data). Ext3 and reiserfs (since 2.6.8 ) can use block-journal after modifying /etc/fstab. The bad news is that block journal is slow (writes all data twice). Reiser4 is the only fs on this planet that uses fast (single write) block-journal.

3. What is the status of journaling fs on Gentoo for SPARC64 at present? Last time I was installing Gentoo only ext3 was available and reiserfs was broken.
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