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confusion
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Software raid and 1000Mbps on a U5? Reply with quote

Hi, my trusty U5 mailserver/router has been sitting there doing its job for quite some time now, but its load is consistantly 0.00 and i was looking to perhaps use it as a file server. I've got a few questions regarding compatibility...

If i house the machine in a new box (to make room), would it be possible to setup a software raid 0 (or raid1) array using a pci ide controller? I've currently got such an idea controller in there working fine, my root partition is mounted on it and its been working flawlessly for well over a year now.

I take it no hardware raid solutions would work at all, due to the x86 firmware?

Also, are there any gigabit ethernet cards that have been reported as working on sparcs?

The demands on the server would not be great at all... there are three workstations in my house but only two of them would use the fileserver extensively... and i'd like to have a gigabit link between those two workstations and the fileserver.

The size of the array would only need to be around 400-500gb tops.

Cheers for any replies guys,

John
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Toady
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I am sure you know the on board IDE is pants, you will either need to keep some of the system on a disk connected to the on board IDE or have a bootable SCSI solution.

On top of that you could add an IDE card (say a PATA 133 card or similar) and a pair of drives for the raid. Software raid should work fine (just dont try and use Reiser), also dont bother with LVM2 either.

As for gigabit cards, yeah sure Sun make some ;) - I dont have any experiance of trying to get a PC Gigabit card to work, but saying that, I had no problems with getting a Lynksys 10/100 card to work in my U10, so I say go for it.

As I see it your biggest problem is going to be re-housing your machine, the board isnt a PC form factor.

Have fun !
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confusion
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toady wrote:
As I am sure you know the on board IDE is pants, you will either need to keep some of the system on a disk connected to the on board IDE or have a bootable SCSI solution.

On top of that you could add an IDE card (say a PATA 133 card or similar) and a pair of drives for the raid. Software raid should work fine (just dont try and use Reiser), also dont bother with LVM2 either.

As for gigabit cards, yeah sure Sun make some ;) - I dont have any experiance of trying to get a PC Gigabit card to work, but saying that, I had no problems with getting a Lynksys 10/100 card to work in my U10, so I say go for it.

As I see it your biggest problem is going to be re-housing your machine, the board isnt a PC form factor.

Have fun !


Yeah right now i have the boot partition on the old ide drive, and root and swap mounted on the ATA-133 drive i have in there on a pci controller. Problem is the pci controller is only one channel so i'll have to replace it, which is ok.

Are the sun gigabit cards expensive? If they're comparable in price i'd definately consider getting one.

Also i've been thinking about the housing. If you take out the floppy mounting and the cdrom drive mounting and the default HD mounting theres a hefty bit of space left in the case. I'm thinking about mounting the HD's upright in a row in this space, and drilling a mesh of holes in the right hand side of the U5 case to allow fans to suck air in and along the length of the upright hd's, if that makes sense. It shouldn't be too much work to rig together something to hold them in there.

Failing that i could make or buy an external enclosure and just run some long ide cables into the back of the U5 housing... but i dont think i'll need to do that.

I'm really interested in the idea of grabbing a gigabit sun card, think i'll start pricing now.

This is a little off topic for this forum but what kind of transfer speeds could i expect from software raid across two 200gb drives on seperate IDE channels (same controller card though).

Cheers for the reply,

John
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Toady
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have an ATA card that the Kernel supports you should get the full speed of it. Software RAID wont make the BEST use of te drives just because it never can, but it will do pretty good ;)

What RAID level are you going for, RAID 0 (stripe) or RAID 1 (mirror).

As for prices of Sun Gigabit cards, I dont know (I have a feeling you can only get Quad Gigabit Sun cards in PCI so they might be rather pricey)
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riposte
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about looking for an Ultra 10 case on ebay or something - the motherboard will slot straight into it and you will have more room to work with, without the major case surgery.
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confusion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies guys... I was looking to just do raid0 for a large high performance drive, and then backup the most important things to an 80gb backup drive. Even though i could do with the 400gb for downloads and music and things like that, the most important stuff for me shouldn't take more than 80gb.

I had considered a U10 chassis, but the U5 (if i can work it) should be better for me space wise.

If/when i actually do it, i'll update this thread with pics of what i did etc...

Cheers people! Also, if anyone knows where i can get cheap U5 compatible memory please let me know, her ein the UK sparc memory is hella overpriced on ebay.

Cheers,

John
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riposte
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun original ram is pretty pricey everywhere I think.
I had some ram shipped to New Zealand from ebay in the USA at a reasonable price.
Just need to watch for the traders who are willing to ship outside the USA.
It wasnt sun original but it has given me no problems.
You know that you can fit the bigger 256mb sticks if you take the floppy out?
Mines now got the max 1gb of ram and the 440mhz U10 processor. :D
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confusion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riposte wrote:
Sun original ram is pretty pricey everywhere I think.
I had some ram shipped to New Zealand from ebay in the USA at a reasonable price.
Just need to watch for the traders who are willing to ship outside the USA.
It wasnt sun original but it has given me no problems.
You know that you can fit the bigger 256mb sticks if you take the floppy out?
Mines now got the max 1gb of ram and the 440mhz U10 processor. :D


Mines got the 400mhz proc so i dont think the 440 would make much of a difference for me, but the ram certainly would; I've only got 128mb. How does ur U5 use the ram? Do you think 1gb is necessary for the overheads i can expect or do you think 512 would suffice?

John
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riposte
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux does tend to utilise whatever ram you throw at it to cache stuff but I would imagine that 512 would be ok.
On ebay a 256mb ram kit (128 x 2) will cost you about US$20 plus shipping. You could fit two of those and still have room to put something in the floppy bay above - a laptop harddrive to boot off perhaps?
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confusion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riposte wrote:
Linux does tend to utilise whatever ram you throw at it to cache stuff but I would imagine that 512 would be ok.
On ebay a 256mb ram kit (128 x 2) will cost you about US$20 plus shipping. You could fit two of those and still have room to put something in the floppy bay above - a laptop harddrive to boot off perhaps?


lol i've actually fit a full size 200gb in that little cavity above the floppy once... it was a bit too 'snug' though. Its not a bad idea though, the U5 looks ugly without its floppy in.

John
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol: that sure would have been snug!!
Hmmm...so still the problem of where to house a third drive?
Have you seen those flashdrives that plug straight into an ide socket?
I use one in my smoothwall firewall machine - works great, no noise, no heat!
I cant speak for the uk but here in NZ they cost the equivalent of about 15 pounds for a 128mb one.
You could boot off one of those and then you would have the normal drive bay and maybe the cdrom bay in which to mount another.
Just a thought....... :idea:
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confusion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riposte wrote:
:lol: that sure would have been snug!!
Hmmm...so still the problem of where to house a third drive?
Have you seen those flashdrives that plug straight into an ide socket?
I use one in my smoothwall firewall machine - works great, no noise, no heat!
I cant speak for the uk but here in NZ they cost the equivalent of about 15 pounds for a 128mb one.
You could boot off one of those and then you would have the normal drive bay and maybe the cdrom bay in which to mount another.
Just a thought....... :idea:


Heres what im going to do...

I'm going to take the default ide mount out, aswell as the cdrom drive mount and possibly the floppy mount. Then im going to lay a sheet of rubber in the space to suck up any vibrations. What i'll do then is take a sheet of steel or aluminium, and drill the ide mount holes (the side ones) in it for about 6 drives (if 6 will fit), and lay it on its side. The drives will be mounted side on, with the ide port on the motherboard side, and the end of the HD at the right hand side of the chassis. There'll be some more rubber between the hd's and the aluminium to suck up some noise. This 'sheet' will then be mounted (somehow) to the chassis and screwed in in such a way either end that the HD's are forced into the rubber on the chassis floor; this should keep them very tight and secure. I'll then have a window cut into the side of the chassis, and two 92mm fans fitted to suck air through a filter (im thinking black pantyhose here, girlfriends are very useful ;)) to cool the drives.

If just the one alu sheet isn't secure enough i'd use one either side of the hd's, but you get the idea.

I really think that by doing this (and perhaps using the cavity space above the floppy) i'll get at least 5-6 drives in the case, but this is all off the top of my head, i need to take measurements first.

It'd be good though.

John
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Toady
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

confusion wrote:
riposte wrote:
:lol: that sure would have been snug!!
Hmmm...so still the problem of where to house a third drive?
Have you seen those flashdrives that plug straight into an ide socket?
I use one in my smoothwall firewall machine - works great, no noise, no heat!
I cant speak for the uk but here in NZ they cost the equivalent of about 15 pounds for a 128mb one.
You could boot off one of those and then you would have the normal drive bay and maybe the cdrom bay in which to mount another.
Just a thought....... :idea:


Heres what im going to do...

I'm going to take the default ide mount out, aswell as the cdrom drive mount and possibly the floppy mount. Then im going to lay a sheet of rubber in the space to suck up any vibrations. What i'll do then is take a sheet of steel or aluminium, and drill the ide mount holes (the side ones) in it for about 6 drives (if 6 will fit), and lay it on its side. The drives will be mounted side on, with the ide port on the motherboard side, and the end of the HD at the right hand side of the chassis. There'll be some more rubber between the hd's and the aluminium to suck up some noise. This 'sheet' will then be mounted (somehow) to the chassis and screwed in in such a way either end that the HD's are forced into the rubber on the chassis floor; this should keep them very tight and secure. I'll then have a window cut into the side of the chassis, and two 92mm fans fitted to suck air through a filter (im thinking black pantyhose here, girlfriends are very useful ;)) to cool the drives.

If just the one alu sheet isn't secure enough i'd use one either side of the hd's, but you get the idea.

I really think that by doing this (and perhaps using the cavity space above the floppy) i'll get at least 5-6 drives in the case, but this is all off the top of my head, i need to take measurements first.

It'd be good though.

John


Personally I think you are going to run into serious power issues trying to run that lot from the U5 Power Supply.. the startup current for 6 drives might cause it to eat fuses on startup and then run very hot.

Go for a low number of high capacity drives - much better idea.

I think that when I put mine back together (dont ask) I'll be using a CF card for the first IDE disk (for booting) and then an IDE controller for a pair of disks in RAID1.

That should do me fine for my local mail server - then I think I'll just have to buy another one for the hell of it ;)
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confusion
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toady wrote:
confusion wrote:
riposte wrote:
:lol: that sure would have been snug!!
Hmmm...so still the problem of where to house a third drive?
Have you seen those flashdrives that plug straight into an ide socket?
I use one in my smoothwall firewall machine - works great, no noise, no heat!
I cant speak for the uk but here in NZ they cost the equivalent of about 15 pounds for a 128mb one.
You could boot off one of those and then you would have the normal drive bay and maybe the cdrom bay in which to mount another.
Just a thought....... :idea:


Heres what im going to do...

I'm going to take the default ide mount out, aswell as the cdrom drive mount and possibly the floppy mount. Then im going to lay a sheet of rubber in the space to suck up any vibrations. What i'll do then is take a sheet of steel or aluminium, and drill the ide mount holes (the side ones) in it for about 6 drives (if 6 will fit), and lay it on its side. The drives will be mounted side on, with the ide port on the motherboard side, and the end of the HD at the right hand side of the chassis. There'll be some more rubber between the hd's and the aluminium to suck up some noise. This 'sheet' will then be mounted (somehow) to the chassis and screwed in in such a way either end that the HD's are forced into the rubber on the chassis floor; this should keep them very tight and secure. I'll then have a window cut into the side of the chassis, and two 92mm fans fitted to suck air through a filter (im thinking black pantyhose here, girlfriends are very useful ;)) to cool the drives.

If just the one alu sheet isn't secure enough i'd use one either side of the hd's, but you get the idea.

I really think that by doing this (and perhaps using the cavity space above the floppy) i'll get at least 5-6 drives in the case, but this is all off the top of my head, i need to take measurements first.

It'd be good though.

John


Personally I think you are going to run into serious power issues trying to run that lot from the U5 Power Supply.. the startup current for 6 drives might cause it to eat fuses on startup and then run very hot.

Go for a low number of high capacity drives - much better idea.

I think that when I put mine back together (dont ask) I'll be using a CF card for the first IDE disk (for booting) and then an IDE controller for a pair of disks in RAID1.

That should do me fine for my local mail server - then I think I'll just have to buy another one for the hell of it ;)



Damn, i really hadnt considered power issues. Its not an ATX power supply either is it? Wonder if i could rig an atx power supply to power up the U5 and the hd's... a higher rated one.

John
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cyan051
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fyi, i've added a D-Link DGE-528T GE adapter and PATA-133 RAID controller with HPT366 chipset to my e250 - no problems whatsoever...
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