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MxA
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

Taviso or any other Alpha guru,

I've been trying to use your stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc.tar.bz2 in an attempt to install Gentoo with CCC on my Alpha XLT 300 (21164, ev5 cpu). After unpacking it, copying /etc/resolv.conf and mounting proc and boot, I try
Code:
chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash
which gives me an
Code:
Illegal instruction
I've searched the forum and found many people who had the same problem because they were using the wrong stage (i.e., built for another architecture, e.g, using a i686 stage on an i586). My question is: is this the same problem? Was stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc.tar.bz2 put together for another CPU (ev56 perhaps?) and is this the cause of the Illegal instruction? If so, what can I do to fix this so I can use CCC to install Gentoo on my machine?

Perhaps I should also mention that I used the gentoo-alpha-2004.0-20040313.iso image to boot my machine, using the legacy kernel (the only one that works, since I'm stuck with MILO). /proc/cpuinfo says
    cpu : Alpha
    cpu model : Unknown
    cpu variation : 0
    cpu revision : 0
    ...
    system type : Alcor
    system variation : Bret
    system revision : 0
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Marnix.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incorrect architecture sounds exactly like your problem to me. It sounds to me like it is encountering an ev56 instruction and bailing. Your XL300 is an EV5 (no BWX instructions).

But like you, I am guessing too.

Jeff D
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

MxA wrote:


I've been trying to use your stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc.tar.bz2 in an attempt to install Gentoo with CCC on my Alpha XLT 300 (21164, ev5 cpu).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Marnix.


Just bumping this thread to see if this issue has been resolved. Any news Marnix?

Also, could you post the exact BIOS options you set to boot up into MILO? And which you then used to boot off the CD? I tried installing Debian a few years back and think I could get into MILO, but always failed to boot off CD. I was using a SCSI CD-R, so AFAIK it should've worked.

I have a Alpha XLT 300 gathering dust in my basement, with an Windows NT server install on it, and I get this feeling it really wants to run Gentoo... ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

Well, still no ccc bootstrap for me. I used the gentoo-alpha-2004.0-20040313.iso image, which worked fine as long as I booted the legacy kernel. There may be a newer iso available, I haven't checked since I do not need to boot from CD anymore. For MILO I used the image that Jay Estabrook made waaaay back, which I've already successfully used to install first Red Hat 6, later Suse 7 and now Gentoo. ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Linux-Alpha/TESTING/xlt-milo.img
I didn't try the floppy image supplied on taviso's website.

BIOS settings:
Boot file: A: linload.exe
OS Path: CD: \
OS Options:

I only used this to load milo, since the OS options field is too small to hold all the information needed to boot from the iso... :roll: Then, when you have loaded milo, use the following line to boot the legacy kernel (that's the only one that works with the XLT):
Code:

boot sr0:/boot/legacy initrd=/boot/legacy.igz root=/dev/ram0 init=/linuxrc looptype=zisofs loop=/zisofs cdroot

Where sr0: is my SCSI CD-R, YMMV. After that you can pretty much follow the Gentoo Alpha handbook for installation. Make sure you make a (small) vfat partition to hold Milo, you really don't want to keep using the floppy...

If you are going to build your own kernel, you can select Generic as system type if you want to make it easy on yourself. If you want a bit more performance and use Alcor/Alpha-XLT, you will need to make a small change in the kernel source (took me a while to find this out). In /usr/src/linux/arch/alpha/kernel/sys_alcor.c, find the line that says
Code:

   gru_int_req_bits: ALCOR_GRU_INT_REQ_BITS

and change it to read:
Code:

   gru_int_req_bits: XLT_GRU_INT_REQ_BITS

This has to do with the fact that the Alcor and XLT are almost the same machine, but not quite. The interrupt request bit vector for the Alcor is longer than the one for the XLT. If you do not make the change, the Alcor vector is compiled into the kernel, which results in your machine hanging after the (in)famous "...turning on virtual addressing and jumping to the Linux Kernel" message. This is due to the fact that the kernel is too busy handling interrupts that are not really there, I think. :? There may be a less crude way to deal with this problem, but this change is quick, it works and there is a certain weird satisfaction in doing manual kernel modifications. On the downside, you have to redo this change every time you switch to a different kernel version. That's the price for using exotic hardware, I suppose...

Anyway, it's great to have found a fellow XLT owner, not too many of us around anymore! Let me know how it goes and if you need any more help, feel free to ask.

Marnix.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am assuming I made the same mistake. I have dug up an old AlphaServer 800 [5/500] out of the back and decided to give Gentoo a whirl on it. I didn't know what the difference between the different stage3 downloads were.

I used the "gentoo-alpha-1.4rc1-test4.iso.bz2" LiveCD and the "stage3-alpha-ev67-1.4-r1.tbz2" stage. Ended up with the "Illegal Instruction" error too.

The "stage3-alpha-ev5-1.4-r1.tbz2" ended up being the winner. Thanks for the post.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

MxA wrote:

If you are going to build your own kernel, you can select Generic as system type if you want to make it easy on yourself. If you want a bit more performance and use Alcor/Alpha-XLT, you will need to make a small change in the kernel source (took me a while to find this out). In /usr/src/linux/arch/alpha/kernel/sys_alcor.c, find the line that says
Code:

   gru_int_req_bits: ALCOR_GRU_INT_REQ_BITS

and change it to read:
Code:

   gru_int_req_bits: XLT_GRU_INT_REQ_BITS

This has to do with the fact that the Alcor and XLT are almost the same machine, but not quite. The interrupt request bit vector for the Alcor is longer than the one for the XLT. If you do not make the change, the Alcor vector is compiled into the kernel, which results in your machine hanging after the (in)famous "...turning on virtual addressing and jumping to the Linux Kernel" message. This is due to the fact that the kernel is too busy handling interrupts that are not really there, I think. :? There may be a less crude way to deal with this problem, but this change is quick, it works and there is a certain weird satisfaction in doing manual kernel modifications. On the downside, you have to redo this change every time you switch to a different kernel version. That's the price for using exotic hardware, I suppose...

Marnix.


Excellent work! I can understand there's a weird satisfaction for you, having spotted the bug, but from my point of view it would be sweet if this could get this fixed in the kernel source. Have you reported the bug?

And which kernel version was it you were using? Don't tell me we can actually run a 2.6 kernel on the XLT?!?

MxA wrote:


Anyway, it's great to have found a fellow XLT owner, not too many of us around anymore! Let me know how it goes and if you need any more help, feel free to ask.

Marnix.


And the funny thing is our XLTs are only separated by about 50 miles! I think I'll be able to find the time this weekend to get stuck into this, I'll be sure to report my findings back here!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

phusg wrote:

Excellent work! I can understand there's a weird satisfaction for you, having spotted the bug, but from my point of view it would be sweet if this could get this fixed in the kernel source. Have you reported the bug?


No, I haven't yet, but I agree that it would be good to have this fixed permanently. I think I will post this problem to the Linux kernel mailing list.

phusg wrote:

And which kernel version was it you were using? Don't tell me we can actually run a 2.6 kernel on the XLT?!?


I'm using the alpha-sources, which is the 2.4.21 kernel. I haven't tried gentoo-dev-sources 2.6 yet, will do so when I have some time, maybe next month, maybe sooner.

phusg wrote:

And the funny thing is our XLTs are only separated by about 50 miles! I think I'll be able to find the time this weekend to get stuck into this, I'll be sure to report my findings back here!


Careful, before you know it you'll be losing a lot of sleep! :wink:
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Alpha XLT interrupt vector problem solved in 2.4.22! Reply with quote

Good news for Alpha XLT owners! It appears the XLT_GRU_INT_REQ_BITS problem has been fixed in kernel 2.4.22 (see http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.4/22/arch/alpha/kernel/sys_alcor.c, clever hack!) Now all we need is an update to the alpha-sources ebuild. Can any of the alpha developers tell me what the plans are for this ebuild? How can I help?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bootstrapping with ccc isn't currently possible afaik - and I don't think any of the alpha developers have much time to fix ccc related problems. In other words, you're on your own if using ccc :)

However, I will be spending time upgrading alpha-sources in a few weeks - I just need to finish my work on the 2004.3 release first.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

MxA wrote:


BIOS settings:
Boot file: A: linload.exe
OS Path: CD: \
OS Options:

I only used this to load milo, since the OS options field is too small to hold all the information needed to boot from the iso... :roll: Then, when you have loaded milo, use the following line to boot the legacy kernel (that's the only one that works with the XLT):
Code:

boot sr0:/boot/legacy initrd=/boot/legacy.igz root=/dev/ram0 init=/linuxrc looptype=zisofs loop=/zisofs cdroot

Where sr0: is my SCSI CD-R, YMMV. After that you can pretty much follow the Gentoo Alpha handbook for installation. Make sure you make a (small) vfat partition to hold Milo, you really don't want to keep using the floppy...
Marnix.


Okay, to get into MILO I first had to update the AlphaBIOS firmware from 5.11 -> 5.66. I got the 5.66 version from http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/. The instructions are a little unclear, but I had to put the xltab.rom onto the floppy *twice*, once without a name change and the other as fwupdate.exe. This worked. Marnix, I noticed in another post of yours that you're running a 5.70 BIOS, where the **** did you get this from?

This allowed me more freedom in my BIOS settings, although I still can't change the HD partition in the OS Path, weird. Anyway I put linload.exe and the xlt milo on my Windows NT FAT *and* NTFS partition and this now gets me into MILO:

BIOS settings:
Boot file: disk1 partition 2: linload.exe
OS Path: disk1 partition 1: \xlt
OS Options:

It took me ages to figure this out, but my conclusion is that new AlphaBIOS seems to be able to read NTFS as well...

Anyway, from MILO I use the line you gave above with the same liveCD as you used. This goes well for a while but then when it tries to mount the CD I get screen after screen of errors about "Not tainted" something or other. I looked closely and earlier on in the boot from MILO to CD I get a few of these error messages and they seem to be about:

"CIA machine check. ECC correctable error detected."

Is my memory ****ed? I've already tried swapping a few modules without any change. Does the 2MB cache also have ECC? I've got a spare daughtercard somewhere which I could try if it does.

I also tried the new installer for Debian, from

http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sid_d-i/alpha/pre-rc2/sarge-alpha-netinst.iso

but that gave exactly the seem infinitely scrolling screen of "Not tainted" errors.

Any ideas?
Pete
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

phusg wrote:

Marnix, I noticed in another post of yours that you're running a 5.70 BIOS, where the **** did you get this from?


Well, it's been moved around a bit, during the Digital->Compaq->HP takeovers. The (AFAIK) latest AlphaBIOS for the XLT is right here:http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/alphant/firmware/alphaXL3.html. Firmware for other Alphas can be found here: http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/alphant/firmware/index.html

phusg wrote:

It took me ages to figure this out, but my conclusion is that new AlphaBIOS seems to be able to read NTFS as well...


Hmm, interesting! OTOH, I think you are better off using vfat, since NTFS only has experimental write support in Linux...

phusg wrote:

Anyway, from MILO I use the line you gave above with the same liveCD as you used. This goes well for a while but then when it tries to mount the CD I get screen after screen of errors about "Not tainted" something or other. I looked closely and earlier on in the boot from MILO to CD I get a few of these error messages and they seem to be about:

"CIA machine check. ECC correctable error detected."

Is my memory ****ed? I've already tried swapping a few modules without any change. Does the 2MB cache also have ECC? I've got a spare daughtercard somewhere which I could try if it does.

I also tried the new installer for Debian, from

http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/sid_d-i/alpha/pre-rc2/sarge-alpha-netinst.iso

but that gave exactly the seem infinitely scrolling screen of "Not tainted" errors.

Any ideas?
Pete


I've never seen this on my XLT, it's definitely not normal behaviour. "ECC correctable error" would indeed seem to indicate a memory problem. I don't know if the L3 cache also has ECC, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. You said your XLT has been "gathering dust in the basement", maybe cleaning the SIMM slots and modules with contact spray or compressed air is worth a try?

BTW if you are looking for a place with affordable RAM for your XLT, try http://www.kahlon.com/. I bought 128 MB there (4x32), in addition to the 64 MB that I already had, works fine. Look for the Digital Celebris XL 300 http://www.kahlon.com/rm1975_Digital_Celebris_Alpha_XL_300.html (same system board as the XLT).

Marnix.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

MxA wrote:

I've never seen this on my XLT, it's definitely not normal behaviour. "ECC correctable error" would indeed seem to indicate a memory problem. I don't know if the L3 cache also has ECC, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. You said your XLT has been "gathering dust in the basement", maybe cleaning the SIMM slots and modules with contact spray or compressed air is worth a try?

BTW if you are looking for a place with affordable RAM for your XLT, try http://www.kahlon.com/. I bought 128 MB there (4x32), in addition to the 64 MB that I already had, works fine. Look for the Digital Celebris XL 300 http://www.kahlon.com/rm1975_Digital_Celebris_Alpha_XL_300.html (same system board as the XLT).

Marnix.


Thanks for the BIOS link, I'll try that first, hopefully it's that and not a hardware problem.

It's definitely affordable RAM, but it's *not* ECC. Maybe this is why you've never seen the error... I'll try and disable the ECC checking in the BIOS (I'm sure I saw that option somewhere) and see how far I get.

I that doesn't work I'll indeed have to try cleaning the slots and swapping the modules around. Oh the joy of exotic hardware ;)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

phusg wrote:

Thanks for the BIOS link, I'll try that first, hopefully it's that and not a hardware problem.

It's definitely affordable RAM, but it's *not* ECC. Maybe this is why you've never seen the error... I'll try and disable the ECC checking in the BIOS (I'm sure I saw that option somewhere) and see how far I get.

I that doesn't work I'll indeed have to try cleaning the slots and swapping the modules around. Oh the joy of exotic hardware ;)


Okay I'm getting desperate and slightly crazy here 8O

I WANT MY ALPHA TO RUN LINUX!!! (sorry about that)

I flashed to the latest BIOS 5.70 which you also use Marnix, but I still had the same problem. I then tried booting into Windows and after about 10 attempts, found out that Windows now also has a reproducible system crash around the login screen, or not long after, so I have to conclude that the new BIOS does not play nice with my memory in some unfathomable way.

The Windows NT installation was working perfectly fine (even after the period in the basement) with the same memory modules before I started updating the BIOS, so I can pretty safely exclude the actual memory modules/slots as the cause. I think the only path open to me is to revert to my original BIOS 5.11, but where the hell do I find that?

*sigh*

Please please someone point me in another direction than a BIOS downgrade...
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

phusg wrote:
I think the only path open to me is to revert to my original BIOS 5.11, but where the hell do I find that?

*sigh*

Please please someone point me in another direction than a BIOS downgrade...


Hmm, I would try downgrading just to see if the problem goes away. That way you can confirm if the firmware upgrade is really the cause of your troubles, you can always upgrade again if it is not.

If you want to try an older Alphabios version than 5.70 (but more recent than 5.11, can't find that I'm afraid), try here:
Who knows, maybe one of them solve your problem.

Sorry I can't be of more help, this confuses the hell out of me too :?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Problem using stage1-alpha-1.4-ccc on Alpha XLT 300 Reply with quote

MxA wrote:


Sorry I can't be of more help, this confuses the hell out of me too :?


No, you've been of great help already. I'll try the BIOS downgrades this weekend, and if that doesn't work then I'm going to have to give up on my XLT :cry:

Luckily I still have 2 UDB multias I can try and 2 AXP systems partially built, so I should still be able to get Linux to run on an Alpha someday :)

By the way, you're the only obvious candidate for the 'inheritance' of the XLT, if you can be bothered to come down to Utrecht. But don't get your hopes up, I'm still betting on the BIOS being the problem!!! :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to receive many "Memory error corrected by processor" messages on my DEC 3000. Apparently the cache memory begins to degrade on these earlier machines and hence the errors. The OS should continue to function thought as the error is corrected at the hardware level. This was under Tru64 of course.

I then inherited a AlphaStation 900xp (basically a DS10 with a gfx card). It used to signal 11 during kernel builds. I removed all the cards/mem/disks vacummed and brushed all components. Put it all back together and it's never bailed out of a build yet.

I have the v68 firmware installed, running the 2.4.21-r17 kernel.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the same exact "machine check" errors on my XLT. I also have the 5.70 firmware, currently running a 2.4.25 vanilla-source kernel.

I have found that if I go in the box and just reseat all the SIMMS and blow some dust out, that usually takes care of the problem, at least for a while. When it happens again (the machine will basically lock up when it starts happening after running for weeks), I just repeat. Sometime leaving it turned off for a little while helps too. Heat issue?

I chalked the problem up to an aging machine. I never even thought about downgrading firmware. It is possible though it might be releated. I bet that 5.70 wasn't well tested since it came out just around the time NT on Alpha was killed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason I wasn't watching this topic any more and only just saw the new posts. Thanks BaNJaX and jeffd for the inspiration, I'll try reseating the RAM again *properly* (need to get some compressed air that MxA was talking about) and otherwise swapping out the daugherboard (where I assume the cache is located)! Hopefully my next post will be all :D
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffd wrote:
When it happens again (the machine will basically lock up when it starts happening after running for weeks), I just repeat.
Jeff D


Hey Jeff, what do you actually do with this antique? You don't happen to be running a CCC complied BOINC client that I can get a copy of do you? This is the only use I can think of for my XLT, can't really use it as a server if it's going to be flaky...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: BOINC/SETI Reply with quote

Sorry for the late reply. I don't pass through these forums that regularly.

I haven't done a BOINC port for Alpha yet. Guess I should though. I'll have to see if I can find some time for it.

The original S@H client for Alpha Linux is CCC compiled. I am the person who did the original port (as well as Tru64, Alpha/NT and HP-UX Itanium). At the time, I think I built it on RH 6.2 with ccc/cxx . It's been so long. I remember I liked the client statically so that it would run on boxes, like Debian, etc, that might not ordinarily have the ccc/cxx runtime libraries installed so people wouldn't have to jump through hoops. Doing so did leave some performance on table for EV6 and later because I built the binary using ev5 cpml . If I do BOINC, I'll build shared, or maybe both a shared and static binary for people to choose.

On this XLT box, it is still no speed demon (daemon?) though. Work units still took on average 57 hours.

I actually use the box as backup to a live website and also have recently installed Zope/Plone on it to start building/prototyping a new portal for the same web site. Had to manually hack bunch of ebuilds to get Plone/Zope to install, but once I did, everything builds just fine and seems fairly stable, though I haven't stressed it too much yet.

My biggest problem that just started in the last few days is that one of the hard disks is starting to get a lot of bad sectors (a 1 GB FAST10-SCSI Quantum Fireball). I guess I'm going to have to start scrounging a replacement. Luckily, all I've got on it is a swap partition and /usr/portage which is easily recoverable.

Jeff D
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any progress compiling boinc with ccc / cxx and cpml /cxml ???
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haven't had any time to even touch it.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So i did it boinc and the setiathome app. build with compaq ccc.
At least the setiathome app. is twice as fast as using gcc to compile it.
Average processing time is at 4h to 4.30 per wu on my ds10.

URL: Download
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alphads10 wrote:
So i did it boinc and the setiathome app. build with compaq ccc.
At least the setiathome app. is twice as fast as using gcc to compile it.
Average processing time is at 4h to 4.30 per wu on my ds10.

URL: Download


Cool. What did you use for your compile flags?

Most of the speedup of ccc vs gcc comes from the Compaq cpml math library.

Jeff D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffd wrote:
alphads10 wrote:
So i did it boinc and the setiathome app. build with compaq ccc.
At least the setiathome app. is twice as fast as using gcc to compile it.
Average processing time is at 4h to 4.30 per wu on my ds10.

URL: Download

Cool. What did you use for your compile flags?
Most of the speedup of ccc vs gcc comes from the Compaq cpml math library.
Jeff D


I compiled clients for ev5,ev6 and ev67 so the flags depend on the arch.
My clients take heavy use of fftw3 libs (fftw.org) compiled with ccc ( linked against cpml).

used flags are: -fast -O5 -fp_reorder -ifo -inline speed - tune arch -host arch -ansi_alias -tweak -lcpml
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