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Bob P
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bittorrent

onslaught wrote:
Yes perhaps that would be best for now. Pirate Bay (or a similar site) seems like it would work well. I went to it and all you have to do is register and then you can upload your torrent to their tracker.


no, that would not be best for now. although it would seem that way at a casual glance, it really doesn't help the project. here's why:

while i do appreciate everyone's desire to provide helpful suggestions, i have already stated very clearly that a public tracker will not provide sufficient statistical information on the distribution of the tarballs to satisfy my caprecious and arbitrary demands for statistical information.

whenever i say that i want a private tracker and not a public tracker, a debate invariably ensues from people who don't understand what the differences are between them, or a debate ensues about whether or not the project's statistical tracking demands are reasonable in the eyes of users who don't understand the need for them. rather than trying to justify my position, i'll just simplify my answer and avoid any further debate on the subject by saying that the distribution statistics are necessary and the decision to track them is not negotiable.

i really wish that people would read the threads instead of rehashing the same suggestion of a public tracker over and over again. a public tracker does not meet the project's demands, so its not an option.

Jackass! will be distributed via bittorrent if and only if we can develop a privately hosted tracker. i'd love to have somebody offer to help in this regard because my time is limited -- unfortuantely repeated recommendations to use public trackers just aren't going to help.

until such time that i have time to work on a private tracker (or somebody steps up to help), Jackass! will be released exclusively via FTP and CD. hopefully we will have more mirrors online soon.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SourceForge

there's a reason that this project is not hosted on SourceForge. the people who recommend this option don't seem to understand the commitment that i would have to make to SourceForge in order to obtain hosting space there. i am only one person and i am not willing to single handedly take on the support commitments and sacrifice even more of my time to meet the demands required by sourceforge just so that you can have a free high bandwidth mirror. people who make suggestions like that are grossly unaware of the time and money that is required in providing a "free" software distribution. they're just looking for a handout.

i wish that users would please stop making recommendations for me to implement changes that would make their life easier by requiring an increased level of time and/or monetary commitment on my part. recommendations like that make it obvious that you're looking for a handout, that you're not willing to do anything to help, that you just don't value my time, and that you expect me to foot the bill for your benefit. it just doesn't work that way.

the files are available for free download. if you don't like the download options, you can either support the project by buying a CD or just pass on it altogether. perhaps its a good idea to consider that those of us who have been working on this project in the development and testing phases have a lot of experience -- we already understand the hosting options that are being suggested. we've considered them and decided that they're not an option for one reason or another. what we've already offered is what we're going to offer. take it, leave it, or contribute to this open source project by offering a better solution that requires your time, effort, money and bandwidth.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onslaught wrote:
Well I wouldn't be moving the laptop if I were going to host the content but I have got a desktop I'm bringing up this weekend that I could in theory use. My laptop btw is a pentium-m 1.6 ghz 1024 Mb ram 5400 rpm HD with a cat 5e connection to the ethernet. However The desktop is my main system so if hosting Jackass was the only thing I could do with it then I would only want to host Jackass till a more permanent mirror could be setup. Unless it's possible to host content and carry on with other proccesses too? I suppose its also possible to ask my comp sci teacher if theres any way I could host it through one of the university's computers. I'll try and look into that tomorrow. I'm sorry about my noobness :( .


thanks for your offer to help.

the CPU requirements for hosting a server are absoluetly minimal. for example: the Jackass! Project's web site, FTP server for the test group, and mirroring host are all run on a P200 with 64 MB of memory and a 6 GB hard disk. you could literally host a mirror on any PC that had a decent bandwidth connection. university LAN connections are the Holy Grail of bandwidth, so i'm really interested in setting up a mirror on a connection like that. its relatively cheap to obtain an old headless pentium-class box that could be used as a dedicated server in a university dorm room. a box like that can be bought on the used market for about $20. that option would allow you to leave the mirror running 24/7.

another option would be to run the mirror on a faster box that is your primary desktop box. the mirror could be up and running in the background whenever you have linux running, and it would only go down if and when you needed to run windows. for obvious reasons, this solution isn't as appealing as setting up a dedicated server on an old throw-away PC.

the problem that i find in your request to set up a temporary mirror is that its just not worth my time to go through all of the trouble that's involved in helping you to set-up a mirror that will be temporary instead of permanent.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob accepted me as a tester for the 2005.0 for whatever reasons (my tenacity, my forthrightedness, my 'neat' testing mechanisms....

However, I realized just how much effort he put into this - previously, He and Ryan did most of this themselves, and Jeremy jumped on board and was able to test quickly. I was limited in my testing but I put the system through its paces, learning a good deal about framebuffer in the process (and that it just doesn't like my laptop).

this time around, without Ryan present, we lost a good HS mirror. With the loss of a second HS mirror, I felt obligated to offer my services - and to see if my suspicions were right about my ISP screwing around with ports.

Needless to say, SSH, FTP and RSYNC all work forwarded from the router to my Gentoo box. My ISP is not screwing around with me, which means that either Windows is, or else my FTP software in Windows is. So, I am stuck with this.

The Gentoo box is 100% Gentoo dedicated - no other files for distribution, no hidden directories, etc. - I built it b/c I was tried of running XP on a Celeron 366 with 160 MB of RAM, when Gentoo screams on the same machine. Since I decided to make it a dedicated Gentoo Jackass! box, I figured I could offer the BW up as well, even if it is only a tiny bit.

I have a max upstream of 768 KB/s which equates to 96 KB/s. I asked to have 1/2 of that reserved for me so I would not start experiencing bottlenecks of my own in daily activities - after all, there are 3 users and 4 machines here. I have evaluated things, and even uploading 300 MB to my (offsite) FTP server *while* you all were grabbing the files tonight, and I was still able to surf, etc, although when I was uploading 2 files simultaneously it bogged down quickly.

Thus, I will see if I can allocate another 20 KB/s *total* available for all. Unfortunately, the more users that hit me, the slower it gets. Since I leave it on 24/7, try in the extreme late hours of the night, you might have better results then.

If I could afford it, I would have a T1 (at least) for you all, but I am not that rich, (and the fact that I ma on a P4 2.0(A) GHz machine built 3.5 years ago should tell you something), and thus this is the only way that I can contribute back to the project. So far, that is.

@Bob - I was a frequent poster at Slyck.com, a good site regarding Filesharing an P2P, and I will run over there and see if any one over there has good knowledge on setting up a private tracker (I'll link to this post so they can see what and why you want it). Hopefully we can generate some outside interest, in developing the tracker, if nothing else.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmm well I while I would buy an old pentium to set up a server on I have virtually no space for me to put it. I'm currently in an very crowded room with only one desk but I may moving to a more spacious room in the near future. Tomorrow I have Comp Sci so I will try to remember to talk to my professor about setting up a server on one of the campus's computer's. It's possible it might be against the university's policy to do that so I may have to do it incognito. 8) In the meantime I will do everything within my power to helping remedy this situation
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@john, i think that folks just don't realize how difficult it is to accomodate people's desires to download really big files at high bandwidth. bandwidth is expensive, and we all appreciate your mirroring efforts. if nothing else, the last couple of days have shown you how screwed-up windows and windows software are, and how much more user-friendly linux can be in comparison! :wink:

@onslaught, i remember what it was like living in a dorm -- my room was 6 feet by 10 feet. :!: the good thing about running and old pentium class box as a server is that you can set it up in a headless configuration (no keyboard, no monitor) and administer it from your other box via SSH. so if space is a premium for you, you can just stack two boxes and you don't have to worry about extra monitors and keyboards. :idea:

i don't think that you'd run into any problems with your university's fair use policy.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By glory ur a genious bob. Ok heres what I will do unless I hear from someone in the next 24 hours who wants to donate a box to me I will get one. I will need a monitor and kerboard hooked up at least initially though to install the web server software though correct? Any reccomendations on what to get would be very helpful. At an absolute max I am willing to spend $500 on this box. Also chances are good I may need help from somone to get it all setup.

On a side note heres a gentoo wiki http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Setup_A_Bittorrent_Tracker that is really easy way to setup a bittorrent tracker from what I can tell anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to set up a headless box, follow the ssh instructions in the gentoo manual. you only need the monitor and keyboard hooked up to turn on ssh while the live CD is running. from then on, you can perform the entire gentoo install via the remote box.

don't spend more than $20 on an old pentium box to be a web server. you really don't need CPU speed for this type of application. all that you need is a pentium class box with enough memory to run gentoo, a 5 GB hard disk, and a LAN card.

i am familiar with the wiki article and its references to php. it does not solve my problem, as i am a php-ignoramus. i am looking for a non-php solution, or we will have to wait a long time for me to learn php.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, just like to say thankyou to bob for all his hardwork, have just made donation for 2005.1 cd, why? because jackass saves me lot of time on installs and gives stable, fast install.

Just don't understand why people moan and complain so much when offered a free product?


Was reading the bit on AMD 64 build and why not suitable for a jackass build, GCC 4.4 being stable etc, but was wondering is one of the other benefits of Jackass that of not have circular dependancies associated with stage1 build? If so this alone would make a 64bit build attractive!

Just to confirm, can use the XP build on durons above 1100 as they have same cflags?

Thanks Bob
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@bob - yeah, that is so true. I ran into a similar situation with folks who wanted to use the GrabIt Search function to find binary attachments in Usenet posts, and got pissed when the developer limited the search to 4 per day for unregistered users. What they failed to account for was that in a single month, the developer was paying *out of his own pocket* over 1.5 TB of Bandwidth.

Yes, that was not a typographical error - 1.5+ Terabytes of BW.

Even with tarballs only 120 MB in size, at 10 downloads, we hit 1 gig, and at 10,000 downloads, we hit over 1 TB. If these users could try to consider these numbers rationally, perhaps they would get a better idea of the costs involved.

Also, re: Windows - yeah, we did, didn't we? and it turns out that I am not the only one experiencing these issues - there has been a rash of them using that particular software with the same issues, and it seems to me to be stemming from a design / implementation change a few versions back. Since his is a Sourceforge project, I am able to get older versions, and I am almost willing to bet that if I go back far enough all my problems will be solved....

@onslaught - I performed all of my installs in this manner, b/c the laptop I installed the P2 test tarballs on has a limited KB and an even tinier LCD display.
Just remember to change the pw of root, then start SSHD. At that point you can do the entire install via SSH - works like a champ. Also, from that point on, all software installation can also be done via SSH, as well as emerging of software, etc. You basically need the monitor for about he first 5 - 10 minutes max.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpman wrote:
Was reading the bit on AMD 64 build and why not suitable for a jackass build, GCC 4.4 being stable etc, but was wondering is one of the other benefits of Jackass that of not have circular dependancies associated with stage1 build? If so this alone would make a 64bit build attractive!

Circular dependency issues were really only present with the 2005.0 x86 Gentoo tarballs. The other arches were only slightly affected or completely unaffected. This has since been resolved with 2005.1. There's still no need for any kind of Jackass! stage for x86-64, as you can perform a stage 1 install without problems for that arch using just a Gentoo tarball.
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, there were definitely some circular dependencies in 2004.3, but i don't know about any of the later releases because i stopped doing stage 1 installs. :!:

regarding the use of jackass tarballs on other arches, i am no AMD expert, so i can't really say. the bottom line is that if you look at the CPU flags in /proc/cpuinfo, you should be able to run a tarball on any cpu whose flags are a superset of those for the CPU that the tarball was designed for.

as an example: pentium classic tarballs work on everything. don't laugh. i have so many different computers around here and so many drives that keep getting shuffled back and forth in the development lab that my standard deployment is a build for pentium classic. 8O
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, i am going to raise the question of AMD 64 bit jackass AND finacial support for jackass.

Like many users i have a 64 bit system, currently running 32bit, and have a keen interested in 64 bit jackass cd/tarball, yes i know all the reasons why we don't have one, GCC stable etc. However i believe that the main reason is lack of hardware, if Bob had a 64bit system i am sure we would see a 64bit Jackass, now would that not be nice :)

So all of you 64bit users and wanters why not put your money where you mouth is donate some funds/hardware to the jackass (64bit) project. A 64bit system can be built at low cost now, a trawl of ebay will see a 754 based parts/system going for resonable price, $500 should sort out basic system, i am sure there are more than 25 users out there wanting a 64 bit version so $20 each would soon see hardware costs covered.

Even if you don't want 64bit version then a small donation, buy a CD, will help with other hardware costs, don't forget 64bit hardware will speed up the bulding of other arches, a donation of $10 or $20 is a small price to pay for the time you save and the piece of mind of having stable, fast and tested install.

Jackass is not a 'for profit' venture so let have some comminity support :)



Jackass 2005.1 AMD 64bit (coming soon if you act NOW)


Bob would it not be an idea to add AMD 64bit to poll you have on archs wanted? with a proviso that it will only be done if funds/hardware are donated so you have the hardware to do it?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpman: what will an amd64 Jackass! give you that a 2005.1 stage3 will not? Be very specific.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

didn't Bob say, that there will be no Jackass AMD64 version cuz they already use gcc 3.4?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throx wrote:
didn't Bob say, that there will be no Jackass AMD64 version cuz they already use gcc 3.4?

i might have said that. IIRC i think i might have actually said that that is why there is no Jackass! for AMD-64 right now. that doesn't necessarily mean that there would never be such a version of Jackass! in the future.

i think that a better way to describe the situation is that i don't perceive a crucial need for me to port Jackass! to AMD-64 for a number of reasons. in order of importance, they are:

1. i don't own an AMD-64 box :cry:
2. i don't see alot of need for me to spend my time to make life easier for people whose computers are faster than mine :twisted:
3. GCC 3.4.x is already in the stable branch on AMD-64 8)
4. its a relatively simple task for people who own an AMD-64 box to do a Stage 1/3 install (skipping the toolkit upgrade, of course) to rebuild their system with appropriate CFLAGS. :wink:

the bottom line as i see it is that everyone likes the pre-packaged Jackass! tarballs in favor of going through the steps of rebuilding a Jackass!-equivalent system on their own architecture. the way I had originally envisioned it, Jackass! whould be most highly valued on the architectures that needed it the most, namely the slower arches upon which the toolkit-based performance improvements are the most tangible: pentium, pentium-mmx, pentium-pro, etc.

interestingly, the Jackass! download logs have shown that i was wrong and the exact opposite is true -- Jackass! is most popular on the arches that actuall need it the least. for example:

Tarball Utilization Histogram

this is an example of why i want tarball utilization statistics from the mirrors. the graph shows that Jackass! is most popular on the arches that "need it" the least -- the fastest boxes upon which it is the least painful for users to build a Jackass!-equivalent via a Stage 1/3 install.

human nature being what it is, people want ease of use on a fast computer. support for the Jackass! project has shown that nobody cares enough about the older arches to support them, so i'm phasing them out. the old arches that nobody is downloading or supporting are going to experience one of two fates:

A) for now, distribution will be limited to people who support the project
B) i'm going to stop making them once and for all if nobody supports them.

i can't see any good reason to spend hour after hour building arches that people don't want to support. similarly, if there are arches that people are willing to support, i will consider building them. looking at the data that we have so far, it clearly indicates that the majority of supporters favor Athlon-XP and Pentium 4. i imagine that there would definitely be interest in AMD-64, and if there's sufficient interest in it, I'd rather build for AMD-64 than for some obsolete architecture such as Pentium-MMX, PPro, or P2 that nobody cares about.

The first step along this path has been taken: I've put the older arches on the chopping block so that they will disappear if they aren't supported. This means that I'll have the time to focus on an architecture that is in higher demand, such as AMD-64. Right now the biggest impediment is that I don't have an AMD-64 box to build on.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dlareh wrote:
carpman: what will an amd64 Jackass! give you that a 2005.1 stage3 will not? Be very specific.


in your quest for an intellectual joust, i think you've missed the point: people like the convenience of a pre-packaged install that is unique to their architecture. some people are even willing to pay for it, as he has done. :idea:

it shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone that people who are willing to offer support for a project gain a developer's attention moreso than people who are here only to debate the intellectual pros and cons of any specific installation method.

there are specific advantages to a modified Stage 1/3 install on AMD-64 over a plain Stage 3 install. many AMD-64 people are aware of it and have been performing such a modified Stage 1/3 install for quite some time. but i won't rehash what's already common knowledge that everyone participating in this thread should be aware of. if the answer to your question isn't obvious to anyone, i'd recommend that the reader perform a little basic research to bring them up to speed rather than wasting everyone's time with a debate.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpman wrote:
Hello, i am going to raise the question of AMD 64 bit jackass AND finacial support for jackass.
...
Jackass is not a 'for profit' venture so let have some comminity support :)
...
Bob would it not be an idea to add AMD 64bit to poll you have on archs wanted? with a proviso that it will only be done if funds/hardware are donated so you have the hardware to do it?


Michael, in case the answer isn't obvious by now, yes -- the primary reason that I haven't spent any time looking at Jackass! on AMD-64 is because I don't own an AMD-64 box. There's no doubt in my mind that if I had an AMD-64 box that I'd be spending my time trying to optimize Gentoo on it. 8)

For Jackass! 2005.0, I focused on building for older arches that I had on-hand. I built first for P3, because that was my fastest computer and the one that I used Gentoo upon. Ryan (Sith) built for P4 because that was his architecture. I decided to include Pentium, Pentium-MMX and PPro in the Jackass! 2005.0 release because I had already built Jackass! for those arches for my own internal use. Essentially, all that Ryan and I were going to do was release those architectures that we had already built for ourselves as the 2005.0 release of Jackass!

At that point it had become obvious that the only missing architecture in the Intel line was P2, so Ryan and I agreed to build a P2 version of Jackass! just to fill the gap. The only reason that we decided to add Athlon-XP to the 2005.0 release was because a number of very vocal people begged for it. As a matter of chance, Jeremy showed up with an Athlon-XP box at the last possible minute, and I was able to build the Athlon-XP tarball on his box via SSH the weekend before Jackass! was scheduled to have been released without Athlon-XP.

XP was definitely a last-minute afterthought. As it turns out, XP has become the most popular Jackass! tarball. :!: It woudn't surprise me if AMD-64 were to become the most popular arch if it were to become available. :idea:

So if the truth be told, Jackass! is a very ego-centric project. The vast majority of Jackass! Project was built to suit my own individual needs, and released to the public as a gift to the Gentoo community. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that in the future I will focus my attention on arches that I have on-hand and that I personally deploy Gentoo upon. When I stop using an arch such as Pentium, I'll have absolutely no incentive to continue to build Jackass! tarballs for it in the absence of user support.

As you've noted, Jackass! is not something that I do for profit. There's absolutely no incentive for me to spend my time and money building future Jackass! tarballs for arches that I'm no longer using -- that is, unless people who want those arches are sufficient in number and in their support to warrant me taking the time to do a favor for them.

I think that there are an awful lot of Jackass! uses who mistake the Jackass! Project as being some sort of altruistic venture on my part, in which I selflessly spend my time and my money to benefit mankind -- No, I'm not a Saint, like Mother Teresa. :roll: Those people are in serious need of a reality check.

Similarly, there are an awful lot of freeloaders who could do their own Stage 1/3 install but still expect me to provide a free lunch for the lazy without offering anything in return -- as if I were some spoiled child's mother or father. Users with an adult perspective will realize the time, effort, and expense that goes into the project, and they will realize that that is not the case either. :roll:

So I'm to admit I'm very glad to hear that there are Jackass! users who are cut from a different bolt of cloth -- Instead of always having people ask me to provide them with a free lunch, I'm happy to see that there are users who place value on my time and effort. 8) Its actually quite refreshing to hear a request for a new architecture to come with a call for users to support it. :!:

Regarding your question of a poll -- polls have been disabled in this forum -- a place where they would be highly useful. In fact, I think that polls would be more useful in the Unsupported Software forum than anywhwere else on the board. In this forum they could be used to rationally guide the process of software development.

Unfortunately, if I want to run a Jackass!-related poll, my only choice right now is to place it in Off The Wall, where the poll inevitably becomes trashed by jackasses who don't even know what Jackass! is. Its just not worth the effort.
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Dlareh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
there are specific advantages to a modified Stage 1/3 install on AMD-64 over a plain Stage 3 install.

Otherwise known as not having to do a stage1 install.
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many AMD-64 people are aware of it and have been performing such a modified Stage 1/3 install for quite some time.

Modified as in "replace all occurances of x86 with amd64" modified? Perhaps you do not realize how trivial it is, since I can only assume you have never worked with amd64 to any significant degree (and by significant I mean "Installing Gentoo")
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but i won't rehash what's already common knowledge that everyone participating in this thread should be aware of.

I understand perfectly. I do not think carpman does, so I asked.
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing that i've learned on the forums is that one is not well-advised to make assumptions about what level of experience other people may have.

as a case in point, i am quite familiar with installs on AMD-64, having performed quite a few of them both on-site and via SSH, and having built a number of the Jackass! 2005.0 and 2005.1 tarballs on AMD-64 boxes. don't assume that just because I don't have an AMD-64 box in the Jackass! lab i am totally ignorant of all things AMD-64. that is a presumptuous assumption to make.

similarly, it is a bit presumptuous to assume that a net admin like carpman doesn't know what you suggest that he doesn't know. i happen to know that he knows alot more than you are giving him credit for. inevitably, challenges like the one that you made more often result in flame wars than anything else, so i think it would be best for everyone if we were to avoid them.

at any rate it seems that your post was more along the lines of a taunt for a sparring exercise, and to be honest, i'm tired of that sort of thing continually popping up in this thread. if things are headed in that direction, i'd prefer it if the two of you would take it to the Dlareh on Jackass! thread instead of pursuing it here, as doing so would save the moderators the trouble of having to move the posts. occurrences like these are have made me consider the benefit of moving future Jackass! development threads to a private BBS where i can limit access to people that i think are being genuinely helpful to my project.

regarding your last post, i am going to step out on the limb by opining about what it other people may or may not know, even though i know better. i disagree with the simplifications that you have made in your last post. i disagree with all three bullet points as oversimplifications. i honestly hope that you had oversimplified in an effort to be trite. perhaps you're missing a not so subtle point, which is why i suggested review of the Stage 1/3 Guides. at any rate, i don't want to debate them. there's no point in it.
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insofar as Jackass! 2005.1 development has been concluded, I would like to ask that users stop posting here and that the moderators lock this thread.

support for Jackass! 2005.1 should be addressed in the Jackass! 2005.1 Support thread.
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Dlareh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
one thing that i've learned on the forums is that one is not well-advised to make assumptions about what level of experience other people may have.

as a case in point, i am quite familiar with installs on AMD-64, having performed quite a few of them both on-site and via SSH, and having built a number of the Jackass! 2005.0 and 2005.1 tarballs on AMD-64 boxes. don't assume that just because I don't have an AMD-64 box in the Jackass! lab i am totally ignorant of all things AMD-64. that is a presumptuous assumption to make.

Really? Well I am going to go ahead and assume you know the meaning of the word "perhaps" and leave it at that.
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similarly, it is a bit presumptuous to assume that a net admin like carpman doesn't know what you suggest that he doesn't know. i happen to know that he knows alot more than you are giving him credit for. inevitably, challenges like the one that you made more often result in flame wars than anything else, so i think it would be best for everyone if we were to avoid them.

Thank you for your concern, but I think it would be best if carpman decides whether he wants to respond or not.
Quote:
at any rate it seems that your post was more along the lines of a taunt for a sparring exercise, and to be honest, i'm tired of that sort of thing continually popping up in this thread. if things are headed in that direction, i'd prefer it if the two of you would take it to the Dlareh on Jackass! thread instead of pursuing it here, as doing so would save the moderators the trouble of having to move the posts.

I do not think there is anything of interest in that thread, but I will do my best to humor anyone who posts there.
Quote:
occurrences like these are have made me consider the benefit of moving future Jackass! development threads to a private BBS where i can limit access to people that i think are being genuinely helpful to my project.
[...]
insofar as Jackass! 2005.1 development has been concluded, I would like to ask that users stop posting here and that the moderators lock this thread.

How delightfully Orwellian of you.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dlareh, do you use Jackass? if not you obvously don't get it and your psot here are pointless, if you do what are moaning about?


Yes am expereinced with gentoo (linux, dam even windoze) having done many stage and stage 1/3 installs, as i think Bob has already pointed out, Jackass although starting out as a means to provide fast stable stage 1/3 builds for lower spec machines it has quickly become a means to install an optimised, fast, stable and tested stage 1/3 build for you arch with out the having to go though the whole process.

Now you may not like the fact that some of us do not always want to start from scatch and do stage1 but as Gentoo is about choice we have decided to.


So if you use Jackass then donate, if you want Jackass AMD 64 donate some more, if not find somewhere else to look for argument.

no point replying as i will not be.
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