[FAQF] KC6: Which sources?

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

MOD EDIT: This thread is the discussion area for this FAQ. --plate

Is there some kind of 'features' docs for kernels that explain the differences in the different types, such as alan cox kernels vs vanilla vs gentoo sources.

I have yet to know exactly what patches gentoo-sources uses and why. I tried to find just the preemption patches for vanilla kernels at kernel.org and drove myself totally insane with it.

This is an area that knowing what options are available in what maintenance-line that make that different than another would be very helpful and educational.

Many people just don't have time to thumb through install scripts and source code trying to find differences and even then they may not fully comprehend what they are reading. A simply explained comparison documentation would be a great help to many people.

Chuck

steveb · Advocate Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 4564

documenting that kind of difference is very difficult, because the added kernel patches to the diffrend kernel trees are changing with each kernel release and each kernel sub release.

i don't know if any1 would be so insane to take the time and docuement this "moving target".

cheers

SteveB

plate · Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 1:21 am Post subject:

Moved from Other Things Gentoo (which it isn't, really).

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

steveb · Advocate Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 4564

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

Oook.

I have been using vanilla kernels for a few years now, and the gentoo sources kernel is the first non-vanilla kernel I have used. It is incredibly "peppy" and I love the preemption abilities, but I had to find this out by actually using the kernel. I had no idea it had preemption in it until I put it in. To me that is a MAJOR difference between it and the vanilla kernels, yet nowhere , absolutely nowhere did I find anything mentioning preemption in this kernel! Thats what I am talking about I guess. I do not like to just use something blindly to try it out. I am NOT an experimenter nor do I have the time for it. I manage 51 servers which is in itself a 24/7 job and I use these machines to do it with. Any performance increases/nice little features that any kernel makes available that I can use, I want to know about. I cannot find that kind of information anywhere unless I decypher every changelog which even then doesn't tell me much and takes WAY too much time. I guess I want 'things linux' to be as simply and quickly explained as 'things windoze' so I can just go to a spec sheet and compare.

Linux has come a very very long way, and it is about time it starts offering things like that or else somewhere along the line, it may miss a chance for even more inroads into the 'windoze kingdom'.

Even in the website listings of the kernels in portage tree.. "complete gentoo sources" Complete alan cox sources". tells absolutely nothing. A nice little VERY generic : "this kernel has high performance patches, preemption and specialty hooks for........" is all that is needed for each one being offered. just that kind of description. complette sources says absolutely nothing except the person who set the offering up on the site was hard pressed for a description:)

<off soapbox>

guess i will always wonder what i truly have in my kernel until i go thru the source line by line during a month long vacation or something. i can think of lots better things to do with vacation time:) like get AWAY from computers!

Chuck

steveb · Advocate Joined: 18 Sep 2002 Posts: 4564

ahh... okay... i get it.

maybe you could start just by looking at the description of the kernel:

plate · Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:31 am Post subject:

One FAQ to find them all, and in the darkness bind them: KC6: Which sources?

Now, additions to the descriptions in there are most welcome. It'll probably stay rather superficial as it is intended to a general audience, but if everybody is ok with this thread here becoming the official discussion related to the FAQ, we can insert some of your observations into the kernel mug shots in KC6.

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

Steveb, a bit too long to quote:)... true, but even then many times there is the time element again in researching things. I really wish I had even 2 hours free to be able to research things, but believe me after 16hrs in front of this thing, I am glad to be rid of it totally when I finally walk out of here to relax or sleep. You can argue about the time I am taking to write these messages as research time, but I am writing them inbetween things at work when I have a second or two 'breather'.

A "one stop shop" is what I am attempting to motivate here. There is none and I believe it is sorely needed both as an information item and a convenience to the linux community. The old unix belief that you must sweat blood before you can truly find what you are looking for, and become exasperated so badly your blood pressure is uncontrollable doesnt work any more. Today we need convenience because there is simply too much to sort through now for any one person to handle it.

I had to do that quite a bit for my first qmail install, and if there was a single good resource for more than just elementary or classic installs, I would have saved literally 3 to 4 weeks of research!

Unfortunately, in my job, when I need an answer, I usually have to come up with it 5 minutes before I needed it, so the ability to research things is a luxury I don't have. And now that need for single resource information is becoming more and more prevalent for everyone. I think that if somehow the single information areas like the good documentation that is on this site were increased to many other things, gentoo can be considered *the* distro with all the answers:)

Chuck

plate · Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:16 am Post subject:

Bump. Please note the title change and yet another move of this thread, this time to Documentation, Tips & Tricks.

This is now the official discussion thread for KC6: Which sources?

dreamer3 · Guru Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 553

RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

dreamer3 · Guru Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 553

TheCoop · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject:

what patches do the gaming-sources kernel have? aa-sources? ac-sources? ck-sources? wolk-sources? what is hppa?
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noff · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:56 am Post subject:

These descriptions could be added.

ck-sources - Kernel patchset by Con Kolivas containing high performance patches for the desktop. Focuses on stability and performance. Follows stable kernel. http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/

wolk-sources - Kernel patchset contain large amounts of patches. This set is heavily modified with every bugfix and many performance features. Follows release of stable kernel. Has full development cycle. http://sourceforge.net/projects/wolk

ac-sources - Kernel patchset of Alan Cox contain large number of improvements. Used as a testbed to stable kernels. Follows prerelease kernels. Usually better hardware support than the stable kernel. Updated often.

aa-sources - Similar in form and function to ac-sources, released by Andrea Archangli. Contains a lot of vm work and improvements to interactivity.

lolo-sources - Testbed for gentoo-sources. Contains more performance patches. Created by lostlogic and is Gentoo only.

mm-sources - Released by Andrew Morton rapidly changing kernel of patches for the development kernel. Lots of work on all areas of the kernel. Updated usually daily or more.
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RioFL · Guru Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 407

cool! thank you! In about a month, my work will slow down enough I will have a few hours each day to play, so I think I am going to install each of those and explore system personality with each one.. I think a generic system performance report may go nicely with those descriptions.

to make matters fair, i will burn a cd of all the usual things installed in portage and also freeze the portage version onto cd so all things will be equal.

(back to work:( )

chuck

plate · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:16 am Post subject:

noff, thanks a lot, I've incorporated your descriptions just now. I've also started adding some non-x86 kernels, any suggestions?

noff · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:19 am Post subject:

It looks to me that ppc seems to be the only one with multiple kernel trees. Maybe a request in gentoo ppc could yield some responses.
_________________
What Larry was saying is that if you make it too easy for programmers, then poor programmers will be able to do things best left to good programmers, and will inevitably do them poorly. Everyone will suffer in the long term as a result." - Tom Chance

plate · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:44 am Post subject:

Could someone check the document in its current state and fill in some of the blanks? Comments and better ways to explain some kernels are also highly appreciated.

noff · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:43 am Post subject:

gs-sources - Kernel to be used on the Gentoo Livecd.

gaming-sources - Modified ck-sources enhanced for use in gaming by Gentoo maintainers.
_________________
What Larry was saying is that if you make it too easy for programmers, then poor programmers will be able to do things best left to good programmers, and will inevitably do them poorly. Everyone will suffer in the long term as a result." - Tom Chance

noff · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:46 am Post subject:

mjc-sources - Michael Cohen's series of patches for performance enhancement. Seems to focus on latency.
_________________
What Larry was saying is that if you make it too easy for programmers, then poor programmers will be able to do things best left to good programmers, and will inevitably do them poorly. Everyone will suffer in the long term as a result." - Tom Chance

plate · Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:55 am Post subject:

Thanks! That's a very nice collection we have now. I'm still unsure about some of the descriptions, anybody knows better ways to put it, fire at will.

Narada · Guru Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 300 Location: London, UK

Hello. When I do an emerge -vp gentoo-sources I get the output:

plate · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:14 am Post subject:

Thanks a lot! You're right, USE="acpi4linux" has disappeared entirely from the list of valid use flags, too.