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Why not extend Free Software Movement into political party??
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Why not extend Free Software Movement into political party?? Reply with quote

The tools exist now.
The open source/Free Software Movement community has the technical talent to publish info on the internet.
The internet exists, bypassing all owned media.
The young have open minds and are adept at using technology.
Innovative organizational skills exist for large projects like the linux kernel, why not organize an ideal government?
Direct participation is now possible with access to the internet.
Communication is instanteonous, efficient, and more productive than ever.
Practical minded engineers/scientists exist that will have practical ideals.
A figure head with a reputation is possible to gain widespread noteriety. Richard Stallman, Linus, come to mind.

What's missing? A LEADER

Why not construct a website containing an ideal government, similiar to the original constitution, or whatever the community likes. Then use it to reform the current POS bureaucracy we have now.


Last edited by philipuso on Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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HeySeuss
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What? We have Stallman and he's crazy as any Bush.
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I mentioned in this post.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&postid=1528160#post1528160

Communism isn't a negative term in all contexts like some U.S. corporations would like you to believe. Look at filesharing, bittorrent sharing, and the sharing of code that produces a mainstream operating system kernel that may potentially kick Microsoft's *ss. Now look at possible similiarities between this possible opensource party and the current political party in power. You can draw in the masses with this David & Goliath battle.

Note that I gave the constitution as an example. A polar opposite of communism.

Every issue has it's own particularities and can't be labeled either way.

Stallman or Linus is used as a backing or figurehead to draw in the masses, not a policy maker.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you talking about a communist party or what? You can't really run a political party based entirely on the idea of open source software...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think open source could be a political party, it's just about software. What could be done is have a party in favor of electronic freedoms, against software patents, etc. That would agree with most of the ideaologies of open source (or free software if you like) but on a broader, political scale.
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A broader political party above and beyond what you mentioned MaxPolun is what I'm meaning. The reason I mentioned opensource is to show a form of community, a way to unite people. I dont care what their beliefs are. I care about the tools they have that can create a better, effective democracy.

The tools I mentioned above are what bring opensource people together. Given the correct construction of a website that allows people to participate in a real democracy. The mainstream people of opensource will outweigh the extremists. This is how a real democracy is supposed to work.

People that don't vote give power to those that do. Almost like shooting yourself in the foot. There is a huge portion of youngsters, technology adept, who would be drawn into a party that has a radical new way of thinking and using of technology. The grassroots movement of Howard Dean and his ability to generate money from average joes through the internet is an example.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a technicality, Richard Stallman is an advocate for the Free Software movement, not the Open-Source movement. While in practice the two groups' work coincides for most things, the prevailing idealogies behind the two movements are very seperate. The latter sees it as a practical and efficient method of software development, while the former sees it as an ethical issue that end-users must have the rights to use the software as they please, to study or modify the software, and to share the software with others (either with or without those modifications).
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification codergeek. My ideals would be with the Free Software Movement.

People, please don't be self-defeating and say "I'm just a peon who can't change anything about our current government."
This is exactly what people in power want you to believe, and look if you were a king of "Mt. Utopia", you would want everyone under you to feel the same way in order for you to stay in power.

I bring this up because it is well known 50% of people don't vote, even though there's probably a 3rd party representing you that could gain power if you voted.
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HeySeuss
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Mt. Utopia existed, why would you need a King?
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just a figure of speech, or name I brought up to identify some form of community. Please don't attack particularities, but help. This country is in dire straights and needs some revolutionary thinking with the new tools we have at hand.

I've done some brainstorming and thought why not have a web interface where a topic is brought up for example, "immigration". Then have an upside down hierarchy of subtopics related to the issue. For example "immigration across southern border" and "immigration across canadian border" would be child suptopics of "immigration". There would be then child subtopics on all different viewpoints of "Immigration across southern border". Example "It boosts economy". "It requires us to pay services for illegals". "on an on". Each suptopic "immigration across southern border" would have a forum that people can post messages to and could possibly have even more child suptopics. Each message could be rated 0-5 by viewers based on acceptance, content quality, and possible other properties. Then possibly calculations would then be made and the person with the highest score on that subject would decide on the issue. Or possibly another solution to what, who decides the real policy could be calculated based on posts people make and their rating by readers. Readers would be members and only allowed to vote their acceptance, content quality between 0-5 once when viewing the message of some other. The message would then move up the list of messages based on its score of content quality or perhaps other properties you vote on and would have a better potential to be seen by more members.

Some method would have to be created in order for people to only vote once on each message and not create more than one account and vote the same way with multiple accounts(cheating). Finger print identication for logging in? I don't know what's feasible and cost effective.

The specs of this interface/implementation would need to be put together in which it would work effectively and democraticly. All calculations/source code would available to all and transparancy would keep things legit. A select few of unbiased would adapt the system/calculations if need be. Selection of the few would have to be figured out. Some serious software engineering would have to be done.

Any thoughts by anybody else.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will never happen in a captilist society because someone will buy the votes of those who don't care and because the government of the government has already decided what you can and cannot vote over.

Look at it this way.....

imagine we did an open govt initiaite now for all govt software.
Using your rating systems M$ would win hands down on numbers of people supporting it....
M$ would win on financing the campaing and dispaging opensource.
M$ would pay people to vote for it... but many would vote anyway because that is all they know.
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ideal government specification would not include a vote on whether microsoft is the best platform. It would include topics like that discussed in the constitution except with present day technology, culture, whatever in mind. Kind of a government from scratch. You then use that specification to promote your party and to adapt the present system to that ideal specification.

Any person connected to the internet could vote once on each message if a registered member. Votes could not be bought. The toughest part would be making sure only once person has one membership account. A finger print id system connected via usb to the computer comes to mind. Another more unpractical idea would be retina scan because of costs.

Please don't play victim to big corporations and work with me here. I know are system gives corporations power now, but what about the future? We the masses decide the future and decide whether we get shafted by corporations. We just need to put are common interests together and fight back. The David & Goliath battle "Linux vs. Microsoft" battle has worked. Why can't this?
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Taladar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem would be the 100% security you would need on an the untrusted client computer. If the voting were on important topics (as opposed to forum polls e.g.) you would start to see all kinds of black hats trying to break it to get more votes.
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not an untrusted client, but an insecure web server doing the processing of the clients. I have faith in the open source community in designing such secure software when the cause is motivating enough to do so. I don't see anything more motivating than changing policies that everyone, everyday has to cope with. Transparency of the software is what will make it a better, more secure product. Hundreds, thousands, of eyes, who believe in the party will continually modify the software just like the linux kernel.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, I think you would want to look at open source, not free software. Open source is free software, plus more. Free software is just a bunch of cheap people. Open source is people who work together to achieve a goal.

Also, while I do like your idea, it's not possible. First off, it wouldn't be taken seriously. Next you have to look at the people who make up the group. Half of us are recluses and just wierd in general (myself included, of course ;o). Then you would say that there could be Online voting. This is impossible due to the insecurities to such a system. For every security boost, there is a opening that would be exploited to its full extent (because half of our power comes from what we can do once we find an opening).

While we do have a lot of things that are important (easy communication, great information gathering, extensive background), we couldn't pull it off because we'd never get things such as financial backing or even credibility in society.

Maybe some day....
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flawed, flawed, flawed.

I vouch for Technocracy. :D

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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got to understand that you would be setting up a virtual government in which policies would slowly move to reality because people of the party would be become united in their voting. Getting in power is about numbers of people willing to accept and vote on policies together. When you create a web interface that has 100% transparency(source code), is based on the movement of Linux/open source/Free Software Movement, you will get people that will put their trust, sweat, & blood into it.
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plbe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets all get go sit outside the M$ building with pickets singing kumbaya
:D
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Half of us are recluses and just wierd in general (myself included, of course ;o).


Some of the greatest music bands, artists, scientists, who are like you have contributed great ideas to society. Thinking outside the box is needed to become aware of all possible solutions to problems. Do not stop yourself in using your talents to help others and society in general just cause your not an all around typical American. This idea I have will to take your political/whatever beliefs and give them a channel to the rest of society. If there radical, you will be a minority, but at least people are still aware that there are different solutions to problems.


Last edited by philipuso on Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lets all get go sit outside the M$ building with pickets singing kumbaya



No, I have a better idea. Spread the word about this post on the gentoo message board to others, friends, family, whoever, who may have interest in making/contributing/constructing a technocracity. Make this post 1000's of messages long. Information & networking is power.
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of you just give skeptism "Saying, all shucks, it can't be done." This is nonsense. One person can make a big difference in the lives of others. Invigorate yourself's, get pissed off at the fact were allowing millions of illegals across are southern border. That past polices in the mideast caused 9/11. This is motivation for change and the work to get change. I'm just trying to channel that motivation into something that will get results, rather than cussing, punching a bag, throwing your monitor out the window, and so on.
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plbe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philipuso wrote:
Quote:
Lets all get go sit outside the M$ building with pickets singing kumbaya



No, I have a better idea. Spread the word about this post on the gentoo message board to others, friends, family, whoever, who may have interest in making/contributing/constructing a technocracity. Make this post 1000's of messages long. Information & networking is power.


why not just start an exclusive website for this(if there already isn't one)? www.opensourcemovement.com :D
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philipuso
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own technical ability in programming and creating a website is not up to snuff but I'm becoming reinvigorated in learning to do so. Perhaps others would feel inclined to create a website. I'm more of the general all around computer guru that hasn't specialized in any programming as of yet. Though I do like ruby and it's object oriented intuitiveness. This is an environment with tech savvy people isn't it?

With the constructing of the initial website good communication must exist between the author and the group of people considering it's content so all ideas can be put on the table and one implemented.
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plbe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philipuso wrote:
My own technical ability in programming and creating a website is not up to snuff but I'm becoming reinvigorated in learning to do so. Perhaps others would feel inclined to create a website. I'm more of the general all around computer guru that hasn't specialized in any programming as of yet. Though I do like ruby and it's object oriented intuitiveness. This is an environment with tech savvy people isn't it?

With the constructing of the initial website good communication must exist between the author and the group of people considering it's content so all ideas can be put on the table and one implemented.


I'm sure if you purchased the domain and had someone to host it you could find a fellow gentooer to help with the design :D just a thought
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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"Hey hey Billy Gates! How many pc's got hacked today!"
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