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taskara
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Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 3763
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | | taskara wrote: | | so it somehow is set to use linux threads, but can switch to use posix? |
as i understand it, NPTL is the default, with fallback to linux threads if NPTL doesn't work. if you were to use the USE="nptlonly" flag, then it would be NPTL default, with no fallback support if NPTL doesn't work. |
Thanks Bob, just wanted to clarify in case there was something missing from your guide.. which of course is highly unlikely!  cheers, and good work!
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DrWoland
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 603
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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*Deleted*
Last edited by DrWoland on Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2969
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| DrWoland wrote: | I have discovered the following:
GCC 3.4.3-r1 compile segfaulted all over itself at first. Then, seeing as this was most likely a hardware issue and thinking of something I saw in a grub-related problem thread, I tried the following:
| Code: |
# mount -o bind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
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After that, it's been smooth sailing, I'm on emerge -e system now. I don't see this harming anything, so perhaps it should be added to the guide? My $.02 |
This post (in the NPTL from stage 1 topic) would suggest otherwise: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=1713417#1713417
But the poster was doing a bootstrap from stage 1 in knoppix though, so it may be safe to include the command here. |
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DrWoland
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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*Deleted* Am I dumb or are we not allowed to delete our own posts?
Last edited by DrWoland on Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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this Guide has always been intended solely as a collection of tips and tricks from advanced users for advanced users. even though its clearly identified as such, the popularity of this installation method has spread like wildfire, such that it is widely being regarded as the de-facto method for installing Gentoo. people are currently referencing this guide and saying that the Stage 1 installation method has been deprecated and this method is its replacement! unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. 
this guide should not, by any means, be considered to be a standard or a default Gentoo installation method. its a kludge workaround that has been developed to put a band-aid on a problem that exists in Gentoo 2004.3 that i hope will be absent when 2005.0 is released. hopefully then this method of installation can be abandoned and this installation guide can be erased.
unfortunately, an incredibly large number of inexperienced users have adopted this guide, and placed somewhat unrealistic expectations upon it. as a result, i have become an absolute n00b magnet. i literally get scores of personal messages where new users are petitioning me to provide them with installation help and technical support, as if i have become some sort of cult h3r0 -- a pied-piper of the basement-dwelling linux nerds, so to speak.
please bear in mind that this Guide is a non-official/unauthorized and unsupported installation method. it is not recommended as a standard installation method. as such, users should expect that they may encounter problems that they will need to solve on their own, or with the assistance of the support forums.
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Last edited by Bob P on Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Gullible Jones
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Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Dog Solitude
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, problem here... When I try to compile from within Damn Small Linux (stripped-down Knoppix), the glibc compile checks for my kernel version and stops, saying that I need a version > 2.6.5 to compile glibc with NTPL support.
Yes, I have unmerged linux-headers and emerged linux26-headers.
AFAIK, DSL's having the 2.4 kernel should be irrelevent.
DSL's versions of glibc and GCC shouldn't matter either, since I'm compiling everything with the versions of glibc and GCC that come in the stage 3 2004.3 package - perfectly up-to-date versions.
Any advice? |
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Gullible Jones wrote: | Okay, problem here... When I try to compile from within Damn Small Linux (stripped-down Knoppix), the glibc compile checks for my kernel version and stops, saying that I need a version > 2.6.5 to compile glibc with NTPL support.
Yes, I have unmerged linux-headers and emerged linux26-headers.
AFAIK, DSL's having the 2.4 kernel should be irrelevent.
DSL's versions of glibc and GCC shouldn't matter either, since I'm compiling everything with the versions of glibc and GCC that come in the stage 3 2004.3 package - perfectly up-to-date versions.
Any advice? |
Yes. I would recommend all of the following for starters:
1. Read the Guide and pay attention.
2. Follow the Guide as it is written.
3. Install from the Gentoo CD, not DSL.
4. Don't use a 2.4 kernel.
5. Pay attention to the error messages that appear on screen.
6. Don't post support requests in this thread.
I get the impression that you did not pay attention to anything that i wrote in the guide, so why should i expect that you'll listen to me now? 
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Gullible Jones
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Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Dog Solitude
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I payed attention to everything you wrote in the guide, except for using the Live CD. I don't have a CD burner or a floppy drive...
And sorry for asking a support question. I believe I saw others post similar things here without being reprimanded. |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2969
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Gullible Jones wrote: | | I payed attention to everything you wrote in the guide, except for using the Live CD. I don't have a CD burner or a floppy drive... |
You will need to find another linux distro that comes with kernel version greater than 2.6.5. DSL apparently does not make the cut.
| Gullible Jones wrote: | | And sorry for asking a support question. I believe I saw others post similar things here without being reprimanded. |
This is a statement that is very easy to make, but extremely hard to substantiate with obvious examples. |
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hielvc
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Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 2805
Location: Oceanside, Ca
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| hielvc wrote: | ME wants em autographed PHOTO of our h3r0 before he loses his hair  |
Come on, our h3r0 had this in his signature not so many months ago: | Bob P's sig wrote: | | I'm still a n00b, in spite of my forum ranking. |
He can't have grown up so fast...  |
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| hielvc wrote: | | ME wants em autographed PHOTO of our h3r0 before he loses his hair |
Hah! you are too late! my hair all fell out shortly after i wrote this guide! 
i'm sorry that i don't have any autographed photos, so this will have to do.
kimchi_Sg, i am still a n00b, in spite of my forum ranking. the only catch is that only the old timers really know it.
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2969
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | Hah! you are too late! my hair all fell out shortly after i wrote this guide!
EDIT: Remove all the fat [color] tags that were messing up the post. |
- You use of colour could / should be more discreet. It makes me wonder how you choose your colour for posts. Do you choose one to match the shirt you're wearing today? Or...
- Did your hair fall out as a result of the stress in answering so many newbies' support questions, due in no small part to the creation of this tutorial?
| Bob P wrote: | | kimchi_Sg, i am still a n00b, in spite of my forum ranking. the only catch is that only the old timers really know it. |
After my post, everyone will know!  |
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Wonkey_Donkey
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a little curious about this.
I've been reading through this thread and also the one about GCC3.4/NPTL Stage 1 install.
Would it be fair to say that if I bootstrapped a system using the fairly conservative flags ie. '-march=pentium4 -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer', and then, once it had finished, change my flags to the ones mentioned in the first post of this thread and bootstrapped again, it would have the same effect as the method originally detailed here, but from a stage 1 install ?
Or can I just add nptl to my make flags, 'emerge --nodeps gcc-config gcc' (To get gcc3.4) and then use the slightly more aggresseive flags from the start and proceed with a normal stage 1 install ? |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Wonkey_Donkey wrote: | Would it be fair to say that if I bootstrapped a system using the fairly conservative flags ie. '-march=pentium4 -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer', and then, once it had finished, change my flags to the ones mentioned in the first post of this thread and bootstrapped again, it would have the same effect as the method originally detailed here, but from a stage 1 install ?
Or can I just add nptl to my make flags, 'emerge --nodeps gcc-config gcc' (To get gcc3.4) and then use the slightly more aggresseive flags from the start and proceed with a normal stage 1 install ? |
No, no, no.
All 3 installation methods (NPTL from stage 3 tarball, NPTL from stage 1, and the official Handbook method) are mutually exclusive. In other words, do not mix and match steps from any of the 3 to form a "hybrid" install method. Not if you want to avoid headaches. 
The rule is, you stick to one and only one method, and follow it dogmatically. |
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Wonkey_Donkey
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, understood !
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Gav`
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob P wrote: | | taskara wrote: | | so it somehow is set to use linux threads, but can switch to use posix? |
as i understand it, NPTL is the default, with fallback to linux threads if NPTL doesn't work. if you were to use the USE="nptlonly" flag, then it would be NPTL default, with no fallback support if NPTL doesn't work. |
Any evidence to substantiate this? I've got the same thing, and I'm concerned that since surely /lib would be the default location, NPTL isn't actually being used at all?
EDIT: On the second emerge of glibc, I just spotted the text spat out by Portage, giving me the above info (which I guess is where you got it from?). Is there any way of testing whether NPTL is in fact the default? |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gav` wrote: | | Is there any way of testing whether NPTL is in fact the default? |
Yes. Run /lib/tls/libc.so.6, and you should see NPTL listed in the features compiled in. |
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Gav`
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I do, but where is it specified that /lib/tls/libc.so.6 is the default? I would expect that the (more generic) /lib/libc.so.6 is the default, and any fallbacks are contained in subdirectories.
To me, the current layout would suggest that linuxthreads is the default, and NPTL is only used for applications which know where to find it. |
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johnsimcall
n00b
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 8
Location: North Shore, Hawaii
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: Thank you very much |
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Thank you Bob P for your tutorial! I am appreciative of the valuable time you have put into this tutorial and the subsequent revisions. I am reminded of my introductions to Linux several years ago, and the roads I have been led down. Reading your tutorial, rants, and raves reminded me of the mentor who introduced me to Linux and the quest for knowledge. He sadly passed away two years ago and a great source of knowledge was lost. I believe it is the intent of the forums and documentation projects to organize the cumulative knowledge a person acquires and to make it available to others. I was taught and believe that the smartest person is not the one who has the most knowledge, but the one who knows how to ask the best questions. Thank you for having made your knowledge available to the Gentoo community and guiding us to the resources that make learning possible. I have learned a lot.
Honest accolades,
JC |
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kimchi_sg
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 2969
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Gav` wrote: | | Yes, I do, but where is it specified that /lib/tls/libc.so.6 is the default? |
No other more authoritative source, than the glibc ebuild script itself... I suggest you open it and read it too. Very fascinating!
| Code: | pkg_setup() {
if use nptlonly && use !nptl ; then
eerror "If you want nptlonly, add nptl to your USE too ;p"
die "nptlonly without nptl"
fi
# give some sort of warning about the nptl logic changes...
if want_nptl && use !nptlonly ; then
ewarn "Warning! Gentoo's GLIBC with NPTL enabled now behaves like the"
ewarn "glibc from almost every other distribution out there. This means"
ewarn "that glibc is compiled -twice-, once with linuxthreads and once"
ewarn "with nptl. The NPTL version is installed to lib/tls and is still"
ewarn "used by default. If you do not need nor want the linuxthreads"
ewarn "fallback, you can disable this behavior by adding nptlonly to"
ewarn "USE to save yourself some compile time."
ebeep
epause
fi
} |
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DrWoland
l33t
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 603
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Some non-conservative CFLAGS for a change. |
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| kimchi_sg wrote: | USE THESE CFLAGS AT YOUR OWN RISK
The first set of CFLAGS I used (from "emerge -C linux-headers" to "emerge gcc-config glibc binutils gcc"): | Code: | CFLAGS="-O3 -mcpu=athlon-xp -march=athlon-xp -pipe -funroll-loops -falign-functions -fomit-frame-pointer -fmerge-all-constants -mfpmath=sse -maccumulate-outgoing-args -fprefetch-loop-arrays -ftracer"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" |
The second set (used from "emerge glibc binutils gcc portage" and "emerge -e system", to "emerge splashutils"): | Code: | CFLAGS="-O3 -mtune=athlon-xp -march=athlon-xp -pipe -funroll-loops -falign-functions -fomit-frame-pointer -fmerge-all-constants -mfpmath=sse -maccumulate-outgoing-args -fprefetch-loop-arrays -ftracer -fforce-addr -momit-leaf-frame-pointer -frename-registers -fweb"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -fvisibility=hidden" |
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Currently re-compiling the toolchain with these flags  Can't believe they've worked this far. I wish I could just get the itch out of my ass and stop re-installing. Oh yeah, I'm also using a RR4 livecd, trying this guide with Reiser4 If this comes through, I'm gonna have one monster ass system!!!W
Edit: It worked Got to the point of xorg starting with the nvidia driver too, no problems except for a dumb segfault which was taken care of by re-emerging libtools. |
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Thank you very much |
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| johnsimcall wrote: | Thank you Bob P for your tutorial! I am appreciative of the valuable time you have put into this tutorial and the subsequent revisions. I am reminded of my introductions to Linux several years ago, and the roads I have been led down. Reading your tutorial, rants, and raves reminded me of the mentor who introduced me to Linux and the quest for knowledge. He sadly passed away two years ago and a great source of knowledge was lost. I believe it is the intent of the forums and documentation projects to organize the cumulative knowledge a person acquires and to make it available to others. I was taught and believe that the smartest person is not the one who has the most knowledge, but the one who knows how to ask the best questions. Thank you for having made your knowledge available to the Gentoo community and guiding us to the resources that make learning possible. I have learned a lot.
Honest accolades,
JC |
JC, thanks for the kind words.
i'm glad to hear that someone appreciates all of the work that it has taken to put the guide together, and bothers to take the time to write a sincere note about it. (on your first post!) i've lost my own teacher as well, and i know how you feel. every time that i've learned something new, i wish that i had the chance to talk to him about it.
in reading your note, i get the impression that you're one of the guys who really understands what the guide is really about... that you're not one of the guys who is just blindly following the directions and getting the desired results. i hope that i'm right in making that assumption, as its much more satisfying to encounter a few people who really understand why i'm trying to do things the way i'm trying to do them.
thanks again for your kind words, and welcome to Gentoo!
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Bob P
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 3355
Location: Jackass! Development Labs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Some non-conservative CFLAGS for a change. |
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| DrWoland wrote: | Currently re-compiling the toolchain with these flags Can't believe they've worked this far. I wish I could just get the itch out of my ass and stop re-installing. Oh yeah, I'm also using a RR4 livecd, trying this guide with Reiser4 If this comes through, I'm gonna have one monster ass system!!!W
Edit: It worked Got to the point of xorg starting with the nvidia driver too, no problems except for a dumb segfault which was taken care of by re-emerging libtools. |
Doc, it sounds like you're turning into a Gentoo Ricer.
I'd guess that by now you would be tired of compiling, but if you've become obsessed with it, I have some CFLAGS that you may be interested in. I've been reluctant to post them here, because I'm sure that somebody will try to use them and run into problems. These are the flags that I used to complete the Stage 1 on 3 install on one of my testbeds (without any problems):
| Code: | CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
# (choose optimization level)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O3"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O2"
# (use these only if -O2, they are included in -O3)
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fweb"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -frename-registers"
# (choose additional flags as appropriate)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -march=pentium3 -pipe"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mtune=pentium3"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fforce-addr"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -momit-leaf-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fomit-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -ftracer"
# (optional CFLAGS suggested by kimchi_sg)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -funroll-loops"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -falign-functions"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fmerge-all-constants"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mfpmath=sse"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -maccumulate-outgoing-args"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fprefetch-loop-arrays"
# (CXXFLAGS: choose one)
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -fvisibility=hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
|
essentially, these CFLAGS are just a combination of my CFLAGS that i had posted in the original version of this guide, concatenated with those suggested by kimchi_sg. much to my surprise, the combined flags compiled on my testbed without a hitch.
you'll notice that i've "stacked" my CFLAGS, so that each line that is not commented out in make.conf becomes appended to the line that preceeded it. i did this to make troubleshooting easy, just in case i ran into CFLAG problems and needed to trim some of them out. much to my amazement, i got all of the way through the system installation without any packages borking -- even when building a PC in the testing branch. the only time that i had to change them was to accomodate KDE, and IIRC all that I had to do was to remove the usual suspect: -fvisibility=hidden.
i had been thinking for quite some time about posting something about nested CFLAGS to this thread. although i hadn't used this technique when i was doing my initial Stage 1 on 3 installs or when i was writing the Guide, i noticed someone else using this technique on one of the other threads. (i wish i could remember who to give the credit to!) the really nice thing about nested CFLAGS statements is that they are very readable, and if you should run into an ebuild that borks on a CFLAG, its very simple to quickly edit make.conf, recompile, re-edit to restore your CFLAGS, and get back to business. its a writing technique that some users may find very useful, and i hope that it helps.
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DrWoland
l33t
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 603
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Some non-conservative CFLAGS for a change. |
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| Bob P wrote: | | DrWoland wrote: | Currently re-compiling the toolchain with these flags Can't believe they've worked this far. I wish I could just get the itch out of my ass and stop re-installing. Oh yeah, I'm also using a RR4 livecd, trying this guide with Reiser4 If this comes through, I'm gonna have one monster ass system!!!W
Edit: It worked Got to the point of xorg starting with the nvidia driver too, no problems except for a dumb segfault which was taken care of by re-emerging libtools. |
Doc, it sounds like you're turning into a Gentoo Ricer.
I'd guess that by now you would be tired of compiling, but if you've become obsessed with it, I have some CFLAGS that you may be interested in. I've been reluctant to post them here, because I'm sure that somebody will try to use them and run into problems. These are the flags that I used to complete the Stage 1 on 3 install on one of my testbeds (without any problems):
| Code: | CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
# (choose optimization level)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O3"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O2"
# (use these only if -O2, they are included in -O3)
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fweb"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -frename-registers"
# (choose additional flags as appropriate)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -march=pentium3 -pipe"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mtune=pentium3"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fforce-addr"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -momit-leaf-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fomit-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -ftracer"
# (optional CFLAGS suggested by kimchi_sg)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -funroll-loops"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -falign-functions"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fmerge-all-constants"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mfpmath=sse"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -maccumulate-outgoing-args"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fprefetch-loop-arrays"
# (CXXFLAGS: choose one)
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -fvisibility=hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
|
essentially, these CFLAGS are just a combination of my CFLAGS that i had posted in the original version of this guide, concatenated with those suggested by kimchi_sg. much to my surprise, the combined flags compiled on my testbed without a hitch.
you'll notice that i've "stacked" my CFLAGS, so that each line that is not commented out in make.conf becomes appended to the line that preceeded it. i did this to make troubleshooting easy, just in case i ran into CFLAG problems and needed to trim some of them out. much to my amazement, i got all of the way through the system installation without any packages borking -- even when building a PC in the testing branch. the only time that i had to change them was to accomodate KDE, and IIRC all that I had to do was to remove the usual suspect: -fvisibility=hidden.
i had been thinking for quite some time about posting something about nested CFLAGS to this thread. although i hadn't used this technique when i was doing my initial Stage 1 on 3 installs or when i was writing the Guide, i noticed someone else using this technique on one of the other threads. (i wish i could remember who to give the credit to!) the really nice thing about nested CFLAGS statements is that they are very readable, and if you should run into an ebuild that borks on a CFLAG, its very simple to quickly edit make.conf, recompile, re-edit to restore your CFLAGS, and get back to business. its a writing technique that some users may find very useful, and i hope that it helps. |
Crap, that is hot! However, I'm fairly certain all of the flags listed were already used by me
Edit: Bob, did you get my PM about this? Not all of it is about this, read the last paragraph or two and tell me what you think. If you didn't get it because your pm box is overflowing with noobs, pm me your e-mail so I can drop you a note. Thanks.
Mikhail |
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