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Difference, - UltraSPARCII, - UltraSPARCIIi ?
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Sugarat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Difference, - UltraSPARCII, - UltraSPARCIIi ? Reply with quote

Just read that the U5 has UltraSPARCIIi, but that an Ultra2 has real UltraSPARCII processors..

What is the difference.. and would a U2 outrun my U5 ?
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inode77
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on module cache, cpu generation and cpu clock. Every part in a Sun has an unique number so it's easy to look for your cpu using this number and comparing afterwards the numbers against the other processers.

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UltraSPARC IV
   
# First generation chip multithreading processor
# Two threads per processor
# Up to two times the throughput of UltraSPARC III processor
# Can provide an upgrade path for current UltraSPARC III processor-based systems
   
# Midframe servers: Sun Fire E2900 - E6900
# High End servers: Sun Fire E20 - 25K
   
UltraSPARC III
   
# Scales to 106 processors
# Enterprise class RAS
# 3rd gen 64-bit UltraSPARC processor
   
# Entry servers: Sun Fire V280 - V1280 (2-12 way)
# High End workstations: Sun Blade 2000 (2 way)
# NEBs servers: Netra 20 - 1280 (2 way-12 way)
# Midframe servers: Sun Fire 3800 - 6800 (8-24 way)
# High End servers: Sun Fire 12-15K
Mid-range Processors (i-Series)
   
UltraSPARC IIIi
   
# Designed for 1-4 way
# High throughput
# Highly integrated features
   
# Sun Fire V210 servers
# Sun Fire V240 servers
# Sun Fire V250 servers
# Sun Fire V440 servers
# Sun Blade 1500 Workstations
   
UltraSPARC IIi
   
# Designed for uni-processor systems
# Low power consumption
# Low cost
# Integrated 512 KB L2 cache
   
# Sun Fire V120 server
# Sun Fire V100 server
# Sun Fire B100s blade server
# Netra 120, Netra CT 410 and Netra CT 810 servers
# Sun Blade 150 workstation
Entry-level Processors (e-Series)
   
UltraSPARC IIe
   
# Designed for uni-processor systems
# Low power consumption
# Low cost
# Integrated 256 KB L2 cache
   
# Sun Blade 100 workstations
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Ultra2 vs. Ultra5/10 Reply with quote

As always the answer is maybe =) it all depends on what you are going to do with your system. The US IIi is a great desktop CPU if you are going to be using normal productivity tools. The US II is a server CPU, if you are going to be running calculation or more demanding services (like a high hit rate web server) then you are better off with the Ultra 2.

Of course the CPU isn't the only part of the Ultra2 versus Ultra5/10 situation. You have to consider that the Ultra2 uses SCSI internal disks, whereas the U5/10 use IDE internal disks. As a desktop, you probably wouldn't notice the difference, but start running serveral disk intensive applications at the same time and the SCSI drives will shine.

I've used both Ultra2 and Ultra10 as a desktop in the past, and frankly I'd recommend the Ultra5/10 over the Ultra2 for desktop use. I've also used both as servers, there it's a different matter =)

To conclude, you probably won't notice the difference unless you try to and the Ultra5 and Ultra10 are usually quieter running systems.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultra2 is SMP capable, Ultra 5/10 is not.
Both can handle comparable speed/cache CPUs.

The big choke point in the U5/10 is the built in IDE.
I swear, sun dusted off the slowest IDE chipset known to exist for these machines. I've noticed the U2 to -seem- faster from an end user, non database-crunching, perspective but my guess is mostly this is a disk access issue. The IDE on the u5 is just SO slow, using a quick drive (8mb cache) and a 52x cdrom STILL takes an hour to install solaris, and a dispreportionate amount of time to do swap-heavy compile work under gentoo. The tail end of emerge sync will seem to take decades...

If the money is the same, go for the ultra2 (assuming it has, or you have, a good size SCSI hard disk)..

just my 2 cents, as an ultra5 owner.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Ya think the IDE's slow on an Ultra5? Reply with quote

Try the IDE on the Sun Blade 100!

It makes the Ultra5 feel positively speedy by comparison.

I think some Sun engineer slapped that IDE chipset in there on a dare.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Ultra2 vs. Ultra5/10 Reply with quote

My apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but....

antw wrote:
I've used both Ultra2 and Ultra10 as a desktop in the past, and frankly I'd recommend the Ultra5/10 over the Ultra2 for desktop use.


Why? As a desktop-system, what benefits would I get from U5 when compared to U2? Looking at the specs, U2 seems better (SCSI, SMP etc.). Of course, finding HD's etc. for U5 might be easier/cheaper due to IDE, but that's it.

Since those Sparcs aren't the fasts thing around these days, having two of them would go a long way towards increasing performance and making the system seem smooth. That is why I would choose two slower CPU's over one a bit faster CPU. And U2 has SMP, so....
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Ultra2 vs. Ultra5/10 Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
My apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but....

antw wrote:
I've used both Ultra2 and Ultra10 as a desktop in the past, and frankly I'd recommend the Ultra5/10 over the Ultra2 for desktop use.


Why? As a desktop-system, what benefits would I get from U5 when compared to U2? Looking at the specs, U2 seems better (SCSI, SMP etc.). Of course, finding HD's etc. for U5 might be easier/cheaper due to IDE, but that's it.


Couple of minor things make the U5/U10 a little better to play with as a desktop for me (I still hold that the U2 is the better system overall). Since lets face it, your are not going to be using this system for more than an UltraSparc test or development system.

- PCI bus, you can use a lot of normal x86 PCI boards in an U5 or U10. Not all work but a fair number do, its worth checking out.
- As you said, cheaper disks. As far as I know you can't use huge disks, but 40Gb IDE disks are dirt cheap, a 36Gb SCSI disk isn't.

Still not sure why we are discussing this anymore, since either one will do most people. If you are going to be serious about having a Sparc desktop you should really invest in a modern low-end Sparc, I think a blade 100/150 has been sugested earlier as a cheap solid system (basically a slightly newer U5 with Suns new colours and more modern featureset). A system that can keep up with a lowend x86 will set you back a good pile of cash though (e.g. Blade 1500/2500).

Oh and, yes, the IDE interface Sun use is a slow pig =) You want a cheap sparc, you have to live with it or use a PCI IDE card.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had success using several WD and Seagate 80gb IDE disks in an ultra5. ( the Rev3 one with the PGX24 not PGX8 )
The end of drive stuff doesnt always look right in fdisk, but df -h will show the full amount of space availible.

I've also been wholely unable to make any pci cards of any kind work in that same system. YMMV.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been able to make most PCI cards i tried work on my U5 (latest rev), namely:
Firewire ohci1394 with TI chip, USB2 ALi though it's not so good with 2.4 kernels, ens1371 audio, Matrox Millenium II 16MB, Intel eepro100 network, 3c59x network, aic7xxx scsi (no booting from it though), MSI bluetooth 1.2 dongle on the USB2 ALi (with 2.6 kernels). Also replaced the builtin IDE CDROM with a CDRW.
There's probably more i can't remember atm.
But for the most part Ultrasparc II is > IIi. Other than SMP it has better memory controllers (more bandwidth), bigger caches and bigger I/O in general.
And you could get the best of both worlds (PCI & Ultrasparc II) with a Ultra 60 for example.
SCSI disks aren't so expensive unless you're thinking big capacities, and you can probably use a PCI-IDE adapter for that anyway.
Just remember, the IDE chipsets on Blade 100/150 and Ultra 5/10 machines are junky, they can't even do UDMA33 properly, so IDE on these is terrible compared to any moderatly modern PC.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Ultra2 vs. Ultra5/10 Reply with quote

antw wrote:
Couple of minor things make the U5/U10 a little better to play with as a desktop for me (I still hold that the U2 is the better system overall). Since lets face it, your are not going to be using this system for more than an UltraSparc test or development system.


I have a soft spot in my heart for "alternative" computers :). I still have a functional Amiga 500 :).

Quote:
Still not sure why we are discussing this anymore, since either one will do most people.


Well, I'm not a Sparc-expert, and I just thought that what benefit does U5 offer over U2.

Quote:
If you are going to be serious about having a Sparc desktop you should really invest in a modern low-end Sparc, I think a blade 100/150 has been sugested earlier as a cheap solid system (basically a slightly newer U5 with Suns new colours and more modern featureset). A system that can keep up with a lowend x86 will set you back a good pile of cash though (e.g. Blade 1500/2500).


I have been wondering about an U2, since there's something in SMP that appeals to me. Although I would really want to have an U80 :).

Quote:
Oh and, yes, the IDE interface Sun use is a slow pig =) You want a cheap sparc, you have to live with it or use a PCI IDE card.


Can you boot from a HD that is attached to PCI-IDE?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, it all depends on what u want...

with current prices on ebay, why not go with u60 and throw in an additional pci ide controller...

i have ide controller based on highpoint 366 chipset in my e250 (also pci system) which i've picked up for 5usd and it works quite nicely...
(u just have to be picky on the chipset)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to let you know I have used 120 WD IDE in a US10

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