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Twoform
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:02 pm    Post subject: 100 000 Reply with quote

Just to let you know: 100 000 Iraqi civilian deaths since the invasion. 9/11 is starting to look pale in comparison.
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Slyde
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More to come as well. Just wait and see what happens if Kerry gets his civilian shootin' hands on the trigger.
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Twoform
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slyde wrote:
More to come as well. Just wait and see what happens if Kerry gets his civilian shootin' hands on the trigger.


Certainly. I'm not expecting Kerry to be a miracle worker, but it is likely that the US will pull out sooner if Kerry's promises become reality, which may or may not be the case.
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kezza4
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 100 000 Reply with quote

Twoform wrote:
Just to let you know: 100 000 Iraqi civilian deaths since the invasion. 9/11 is starting to look pale in comparison.


A small price to pay when we are "winning hearts and minds" and "freedom is on the march". And of course these deaths barely register of the empathy-o-meter; we should only feel outraged when some idiot Americans get their heads chopped off, not when Arab civilians are bombed.
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Thalion
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 100 000 Reply with quote

kezza4 wrote:
And of course these deaths barely register of the empathy-o-meter; we should only feel outraged when some idiot Americans get their heads chopped off, not when Arab civilians are bombed.


That's because bombing people is civilized, while cutting of their heads is not :?
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homeobocks
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure?

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
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Slyde
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

homeobocks wrote:
Are you sure?

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

We are just going to use 100,000 now. Sounds better.
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stonent
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we can always give them back Saddam.
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paranode
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah and how many of those are due to stupid Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis with car bombs? Hard to blame America, really, when the Iraqis are killing the Iraqis themselves.
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Thalion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paranode wrote:
Yeah and how many of those are due to stupid Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis with car bombs? Hard to blame America, really, when the Iraqis are killing the Iraqis themselves.


Well, assuming that we take the source given in the first post as genuine (and there are obvious doubts about it), here's what it says on that:

"Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths, and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most violent deaths"
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Thalion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stonent wrote:
Well we can always give them back Saddam.


Why? Bush already provides a decent replacement, quite close to the spirit of the original. Just don't forget to vote him into the office for the next few years and those poor Iraqi will be very happy about your concern for their leadership.
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artificio
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paranode wrote:
Yeah and how many of those are due to stupid Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis with car bombs? Hard to blame America, really, when the Iraqis are killing the Iraqis themselves.


Not that it was the greatest place in the world before, but us taking out the infrastructure really destabilized the region. It wasn't our mess before, but now that we're in it is.... :evil:
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Nicom
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paranode wrote:
Yeah and how many of those are due to stupid Iraqis blowing up other Iraqis with car bombs? Hard to blame America, really, when the Iraqis are killing the Iraqis themselves.


According to the study, 84% of the 100 000 were from coalition actions.
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bushwacka
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalion wrote:
stonent wrote:
Well we can always give them back Saddam.


Why? Bush already provides a decent replacement, quite close to the spirit of the original. Just don't forget to vote him into the office for the next few years and those poor Iraqi will be very happy about your concern for their leadership.


Well put.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted against Bush in 2000.
I'm voting against Bush in 2004.
I'm voting against every incumbent currently in Congress.

The blood of those hundred thousand isn't on my hands, and I don't give a damn what the leftists say. I do not support the war, I do not support "our troops", and I certainly do not support the warmongers in office.
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ewan.paton
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im sure if you take an average of the numbers of people killed by sadam every year then average the death toll over the next say 3-5 years the iraqi people come out ahead, doesnt help if some redneck has shot you cause hes having a bad day but statisticly they are better off
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So.. are we just ignoring the other study that suggest that the count is significantly lower?
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kezza4
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duder wrote:
So.. are we just ignoring the other study that suggest that the count is significantly lower?


Depends how much you support the madness in Iraq. The study that the pro-Dubya lackies prefer is based on snowball-sampling and judgement-sampling. The study that the anyone-but-Dubya lackies prefer is based on stratified-sampling.

You may or may not be relieved to know that stratified-sampling techniques provide a means towards more accurate statistical analysis.
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brenden
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another (very good) source, might be citing the same report though.

Boy, GWB really saved the world on this one.
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Thalion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To point out: it's not a count of civilians killed by Americans. It's a count of all Iraqis who died after the war started. So this seems to include the soldiers, as well as all people who died from starvation or disease, killed in terrorist attacks, murdered on the streets because of higher crime rate etc.
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brenden
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalion wrote:
To point out: it's not a count of civilians killed by Americans. It's a count of all Iraqis who died after the war started. So this seems to include the soldiers, as well as all people who died from starvation or disease, killed in terrorist attacks, murdered on the streets because of higher crime rate etc.

Its still significatly higher then what it would have been if there was no war at all. The same can be said for the american soldiers who've died.
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lagrima
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stonent wrote:
Well we can always give them back Saddam.


lol, i wish they stayed with saddam! i might sound crude and crap but i dont think we should "help" people that dont want to be helped. id rather 'help' a hobo american in the streets of my own country ( or any other country in the world that does necessarily need help ) than some one else that might turn the whole situation into a scorpion asking a fox cross a river. as for the iraqis, they wanna get rid of saddam they can fukin do it themselves. they can go and protest againsts saddam and put flowers on the turrets of his tanks. Or better yet, they can do suicide bombings on his watch.
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