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scottro
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, I don't even remember when I wrote the part about the samba server and changing file names.

I can see the point--yes, you would have to learn something about scripting to do that, but I think the original thing had to do with the command vs. the GUI.

It's quite true, that what becomes intuitive usually takes a lot of work to get that way. If I implied in my post that this makes it easier for someone who has just come to Linux from Mac or Windows, I apologize, I probably didn't express myself well.

On the other hand, were I confronted with an OS/2 machine, I wouldn't have a clue how to rename those files the O/S2 way .

So, I ~think~ we can say it works both ways. (Or maybe, I'm just desperately trying to justify my point of view.)

A user once watched me doing something on a Unix box and asked, "How do you do that?" I picked up a sheet of paper with which she was working and said, "I don't have a clue what you do with this either--is it easy?"

The point here is that OS/2 is easy for you, shells are easier (not necessariy easy) for me because I'm used to them.

I think I've lost my original point somewhere. Oh well.
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brendaniabbatis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

Anime_Fan wrote:

Code:
kami@kami test $ emerge ren
[... Wait 3 seconds, watch lines fly in front of you ...]
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.bak  file2.bak
ren -d "file?.bak" file\#1.img
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.img  file2.img




Think you could live without OS/2 now?


Aha! Very nice. Touché!

But what does the \#1 mean?

scottro wrote:

It's quite true, that what becomes intuitive usually takes a lot of work to get that way. If I implied in my post that this makes it easier for someone who has just come to Linux from Mac or Windows, I apologize, I probably didn't express myself well.

On the other hand, were I confronted with an OS/2 machine, I wouldn't have a clue how to rename those files the O/S2 way .

So, I ~think~ we can say it works both ways. (Or maybe, I'm just desperately trying to justify my point of view.)

A user once watched me doing something on a Unix box and asked, "How do you do that?" I picked up a sheet of paper with which she was working and said, "I don't have a clue what you do with this either--is it easy?"

The point here is that OS/2 is easy for you, shells are easier (not necessariy easy) for me because I'm used to them.


You didn't say that it is easy to come to Linux from other systems, or that there was anything easy about it. I would be the last to argue that the OS/2 prompt is in any way superior to the shell under *nix. That would be silly. I simply didn't think the example was effective in demonstrating the power of the command line under Linux. Scripting can be done anywhere, but it is the nearly inexhaustible wealth of commands, and the way that Linux handles them, that make it so powerful.

I would guess that the answer to my question about Anime_Fan's ren command would be a good example. Or one of those clever grep lines that better men than I can do. Here are a couple things I have found about the Windows command line behavior, which would make any thinking person consider it laughably toyish in contrast with Linux's design:

Peer filesharing on a Windows 2000 Professional workstation slows to a near-dead crawl to give higher priority to a blinking windowed C:> prompt.

Windows supports spaces in filenames, but they have to be enclosed in quotes like this:

Code:
"C:\Program files"\tb2003\tb2003.iso


Try it the way you would think. It will fail.

All in all, scottro, you and I agree.

Now on to emerge ren.


Last edited by brendaniabbatis on Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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scottro
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, glad to hear. it. As I said, the original post is so old, I'd forgotten what it was about.

Shucks, though, I always thought that was great example of the power of the command line when compared to a GUI.

(Usually, the question comes up why a command line instead of a GUI, and that's where I give that example.)

For many of us (and probably OS/2 users too) we get so used to the command line that it's easier--that is, it might take 2 seconds to type something or two seconds to point and click, but we just get used to the command, so for ~us~ it simply becomes habit.

Anyway, glad that we do agree.
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Anime_Fan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

brendaniabbatis wrote:
Anime_Fan wrote:

Code:
kami@kami test $ emerge ren
[... Wait 3 seconds, watch lines fly in front of you ...]
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.bak  file2.bak
ren -d "file?.bak" file\#1.img
kami@kami test $ ls
file1.img  file2.img
Aha! Very nice. Touché!

But what does the \#1 mean?


I feel inclined to say RTFM... But I'm gonna tell you anyways.

ren -d ... Delete old files. You may wanna run it without -d first time around, so it tells you what it will do.
"file?.bak", note quotation marks, without it the shell will expand the wildcard. This is not desirable.

file\#1.img = file#1.img (special character requires an escape). Basically, change #1 to the first wildcard matched.
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of you have commented on the fact that this guy is running older versions of all programs.

You should upgrade:
- Linux kernel to 2.6.x and use the CFQ elevator as scheduker.
- Upgrade your X-windows to 4.3 or to the latest developer snapshots.
- Upgrade Mozilla. Unless you use all the functions in Mozilla, use Firebird rather.

Mozilla includes a lot more than IE does under windows so it consumes more memory.

Keeping your system up to date helps both on resource and speed.

Erik
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scarr
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

brendaniabbatis wrote:

Code:
ren disk*.dsk disk*.img



Unix shells would return each file it found on the command line before running mv. So what you would get is the actual mv command would get 1+ files and then the rename command then the name you want to name it too, which would confuse it.

Blame Posix Standards, not Linux or Bash for this one. ;-)

for foo in disk*.dsk:do mv $foo `basename $foo .dsk`.img:done

I believe would accomplish what you are asking. Definately a little more involved.
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lazarusrat
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or just
Code:
rename .dsk .img disk*.dsk

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brendaniabbatis
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Command line power, or script support? Reply with quote

scottro wrote:
Shucks, though, I always thought that was great example of the power of the command line when compared to a GUI.

(Usually, the question comes up why a command line instead of a GUI, and that's where I give that example.)


Ah! I had understood your point to be the power of Linux's command line as opposed to that of Windows. If you are explaining why command line as opposed to GUI, the example is impeccable.

Thanks to Anime_Fan for the explanation of \#1, and to scarr for the explanation of Posix standards. Very interesting.

ebrostig wrote:
None of you have commented on the fact that this guy is running older versions of all programs.


Notice the date of the post. These older versions correspond to old news:

lei wrote:
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:39 pm Post subject: Re:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi:
first of all , thanks for ur reply.

i am using a celeron 633 on i180, with 256mb ram, 6.4g harddisk.
Though it is somewhat old and slow, but they are all doing fine on windoze.

it now runs on a gentoo linux 1.2, with Xfree86 4.2, mozilla 1.1, gnome 2.0, openoffice 1.0.


lazarusrat wrote:
Or just
Code:
rename .dsk .img disk*.dsk


Even nicer! Thanks!

You guys have made the point that Linux's command line is more powerful than even OS/2's.
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The Mountain Man
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
None of you have commented on the fact that this guy is running older versions of all programs.

Nor the fact that this thread was originally started in August 2002!
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ChojinDSL
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm assuming something is wrong with your config. But with every OS there always a few unlucky ones, who's experience with the OS is unfortunately very different from everybody elses.

My main system is a AMD 2600XP with 256 ram.
I cant say what the memory usage, since Im not at home at the moment. But the system runs beautifully.

I use fluxbox as a wm. Usually I have the following things running:
Four transparent Eterms at least, gkrellm, mozilla with TONS of tabs OR opera with tons of tabs, xmms or mplayer, mythvideo daemon recording some tv shows, x-chat2, distcc daemon, nxtvepg, mldonkey gui (connected to my mldonkey server on the lan).

I think thats about it. If I recall correctly, just doing all this standard stuff, my memory usage has never gone beyond 200mb. By the way, this is the usage reported by gkrellm. I have a swap partition of 512mb, but I've never seen that be used more then 50-70mb.

I run a server which has a PIII-450mhz with 768mb RAM. I cant quite recall what my ram usage was there. But one thing I noticed, I never managed to use more of my swap partition than 1 or 2mb.
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punter
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES, that would be acceptable.
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brucebertrand
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lei wrote:
for ex, we could have a PII 266, or a celeron 300 running office 97/2000 smoothly, and internet explorer, which is very suitable and common for daily use in offices of a medium/small company,at least in China. But, I really don't think it is possible for that kind of machine, running a X(whatever the wm may be), and a openoffice or any replacement, and also a internet explorer equivalent, smoothly, and stable.



I've got a Celeron 300 with 384 megs of ram.
I'm currently running:
XFree / Openbox
Apache2 w/MySQL (light usage...only for my own dev work)
Firefox with about 10 tabs
Sylpheed
jEdit with about 10 open files
mpg123
a handfull of xterms with some SSH sessions
Samba server
seti@home

While it's not the snappiest response, everything is very usable and stable.
There's only a minimal (perhaps 100~200 ms) lag when switching between desktops/apps
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SlicerDicer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormy Eyes wrote:
If you think XFree86 is slow and crappy -- and it most certainly can be, then wait until FDO's XServer matures. Based on comments from some of the ballsier Gentoo Forum members, XServer is well on its way to being a kickass windowing system.


Could be interesting stormy I dont know I will have to read these comments :)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnome!
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