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HeadHolio
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:07 pm    Post subject: Desktop Debian Reply with quote

Check this out. Any thoughts about this or a similar Gentoo project?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Reference Platform seems close enough to me. I didn't read much of the Debian link though.
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
The Reference Platform seems close enough to me. I didn't read much of the Debian link though.


As far as I can see those two aren't even close..

The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.
Maintains a project to redesign the menus to be better suited for desktop users.

The Reference Platform seems to be a binary Gentoo, pre compiled for our pleasure.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case, I hope the core developers don't waste their time on a Desktop Gentoo (at least not similar to the Debian project).
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B_F_Skinner
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:00 am    Post subject: Gentoo Desktop Unnecessary Reply with quote

I think it is fair to say that many users of Gentoo (myself included) are immigrants from the land of Debian. I have great respect for the Debian community. Gentoo bears many similarities to Debian, and adopts a social contract based on Debian's. Debian is great, has an awesome community, has generally helpful folks in forums, etc., and is rock solid stable, but it lacks newer software (it is the only major distribution listed on Distrowatch that still has not migrated to Gnome2, to list an obvious example.) Libranet does a pretty good job of providing a Debian-based distro for the desktop. I'm sure there are others.

And, while Gentoo is similar to Debian, and even attracts some Debian users, does not need to be any different to attract users. Users need user-friendly distros (Mandrake, Redhat, Lycoris) to become familiar with Linux. Some will be happy there. Others will migrate to Gentoo, or other more challenging distros to install, that may require some configuring by hand, etc. This is just the way the Penguin is.

IMHO, Gentoo offers the best of package management, current software, and "close to the box" configuration. I wouldn't change a thing about the "core" of Gentoo, although I would encourage development in terms of new ebuilds, platforms, etc. (Of course, I am just Joe User, and my humble opinion should be rated as just that, the opinion of this particular Joe User).

If you want a fat penguin, go find one. If you want a trim, fast, no-nonesense penguin, use Gentoo. If you don't want a penguin at all, there is always Microsoft
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[smeagol]
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slackware hasn't migrated to gnome 2 yet. :P just a side note
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, my bad. I don't really consider Slackware a "major distro" even though it is listed. According to Rute's Linux User's Tutorial and Exposition, Slackware "is a pain to install and manage, although school kids who don't know any better love it."

Before you flame me on this one, I would like to tell a little story. I got bashed in a Slack Forum for asking a "stupid" question, and was advised to follow the above link. After reading it, I switched to Debian. Ironic, huh?
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Lovechild"]
kanuslupus wrote:
The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.


Well they sure could use some updating! Debian STILL doesn't have KDE3!
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jondkent
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Debian really do need to speed things up on the release front. KDE3 is being held up by the gcc 3.2 migration, no idea why, but once that is done KDE3 will make it into unstable and then testing. Of course it won't make it into stable for ages, so those that want/need to stick with stable will just have to wait.

Judging from previous history, the next stable version of Debian won't be out until end of 2003 at the earliest. Not that this is a big issue, but nevertheless means that upon each stable release Debian seems to get further behind the curve.

Does Debian need a desktop focused group? Probably, but I'd prefer to see them speed up releases a bit and maybe refocus some areas. The reason why XFree86 4.2 took so long is because they make sure it works across all platform, where most of the users are running x86 kit. The best route would be to release x86 packages as soon as they are ready and release space/ppc stuff as soon as they are ready, rather than wait for everything to be in place.

There was a interesting article (can't remember where) which asked if Debian is losing mind share and I think to a degree they are. I started using Gentoo because I wanted more flexibility and more up to date software and got fed up waiting for Debian to release stuff. That said, I would still run Debian as a server.

'nuff said

Jon
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jondkent wrote:
Hi,

Debian really do need to speed things up on the release front. KDE3 is being held up by the gcc 3.2 migration, no idea why, but once that is done KDE3 will make it into unstable and then testing.


So it's GCC 3.2 this time? Many months age people said that KDE3 is being delayed because of XF 4.2 migration. After that is done ("should be REALLY soon now!"), KDE3 will follow. Well, they got Xfree (only 9 months late), KDE is still nowhere to be seen (well, they have un-official packages...).

Oh well, not that I care. I have already decided to move from Debian to Gentoo.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.


Well they sure could use some updating! Debian STILL doesn't have KDE3!
I must be sending telepathic messages again ;)
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Evangelion"]
Lovechild wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.


Well they sure could use some updating! Debian STILL doesn't have KDE3!


The Desktop Debian project states that KDE3 package upgrading is currently blocked by the gcc3 upgrade.
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Lovechild"]
Evangelion wrote:
Lovechild wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.


Well they sure could use some updating! Debian STILL doesn't have KDE3!


The Desktop Debian project states that KDE3 package upgrading is currently blocked by the gcc3 upgrade.


And before GCC3-upgrade it was blocked by Xfree 4.2-upgrade... I wonder what reason they will think of after the GCC3-upgrade?
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B_F_Skinner
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just heard Debian has Gnome2 in unstable now.
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inconnu
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Evangelion"]
Lovechild wrote:
kanuslupus wrote:
The desktop project takes care of updating DE packages like KDE and Gnome.


Well they sure could use some updating! Debian STILL doesn't have KDE3!


Would you rather use a secure and stable system with KDE2.2.2 or trojan-prone shaky one, but with KDE3.0 on it?

There is a fundamental reason why you usually can't have both stability and up-to-dateness: testing takes time.

Oleg (a long time Debian user :D )
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Lovechild
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh the Debian Cabal theory has returned...
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KiTaSuMbA
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcg wrote:
Sorry, my bad. I don't really consider Slackware a "major distro" even though it is listed. According to Rute's Linux User's Tutorial and Exposition, Slackware "is a pain to install and manage, although school kids who don't know any better love it."

Before you flame me on this one, I would like to tell a little story. I got bashed in a Slack Forum for asking a "stupid" question, and was advised to follow the above link. After reading it, I switched to Debian. Ironic, huh?

Ok, I'm a gentoo man by now, but let me tell you: slack made me the linux user I am. Slack is not supposed to be easy: you get the piecies you fix'em. That's why it's a great tool for learning the internals of configs and linux in general. It's tidy, stripped down and minimalistic. If you need any bells and whistles go on and put them in yourself.
As long as the forums are concerned: unfortunately there was no actual moderation so things could get out of hand. And that's why Patrick took them down. I've seen trolls posting XP serials in there.... However my personal experience was a 5 times ask, 5 times resolved score....
Believe it or not, I just cant reformat its partition... I love it and I'm waaaayyyy older than a "1337 h4x0r" kinda schoolkid.
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inconnu
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovechild wrote:
Ahhh the Debian Cabal theory has returned...


If by "Debian Cabal theory" you are referring to the fact that stable software is a subset of software that's been well-tested, you aren't offering much of an argument to refute this.
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