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Ender
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 5:34 pm    Post subject: The futur of gentoo ??? Reply with quote

I read the article in [/url]www.osnews.com[/url].
I have some question is server is realy the futur of gentoo ???
Don't think it is realy a lot of work to check the code and this time may be best use in perfecting gentoo in bleding edge workstation.
Can t be good at everythink

ICC optimisation realy please me.

And about money I am ready to pay for a red-carpet like system with better download speed, not that I think the band is too small but to support people working on gentoo. But I will no pay if this money is use for time on gentoo-server.

And u what is your opinion ???
Can u do a poll on the main page ???
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arkane
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The futur of gentoo ??? Reply with quote

Ender wrote:
Don't think it is realy a lot of work to check the code and this time may be best use in perfecting gentoo in bleding edge workstation.
Can t be good at everythink

Why not? Servers are nothing more than conservative workstations with different daemons on them. (well, sometimes) A "server" version would only mean that it's conservative with upgrades to components, and everything is tested. (not so bleeding-edge) Bleeding-edge does mean breaking/security flaws sometimes.

Code:

But I will no pay if this money is use for time on gentoo-server.


As with any company, the money you pay goes to R&D in many areas. As long as you recieve the product you paid for, thats what matters.

Personally I'm all for a server distribution that is gentoo'ish. Now, introducing it into the mainstream business is the obstacle, but a robust server platform can speak for itself.
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Ender
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is already a lot of good server distro out there and it is the main playground of xBSD.

I am not against a gentoo-server but not until gentoo-bleding-edge-worksatation is a really smoth
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arkane
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ender wrote:
There is already a lot of good server distro out there and it is the main playground of xBSD.


Unfortunately the only "good" one out there is Debian and xBSD. (name your flavour) None of them are truly optimized, though. Debian has 386 binaries, and BSD just is.

Quote:

I am not against a gentoo-server but not until gentoo-bleding-edge-worksatation is a really smoth


That's self-defeating. Bleeding-edge will never be really smooth. There will always be inconsistencies or issues with the "latest & greatest". Right now Gentoo has all of their ducks in a row and is progressing nicely. It's a group effort, community. For right now, that is. I'm fairly sure that it would be absent-minded to wait until gentoo is "perfect" before at least pursuing a server version. After all, it's a symbiotic relationship between the two in all cases. Desktop beats it to death and what actually survives reaches the server and is tested hardcore. That, and server turns a profit usually.

The whole server thing is more or less the philosophy of Gentoo being migrated to server-side. (optimization for your processor with ease)
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klieber
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: The futur of gentoo ??? Reply with quote

Ender wrote:
I have some question is server is realy the futur of gentoo ???


The following are my inferences and assumptions after reading the article.

It sounds like what Gentoo is moving towards is a Debian-style tiered system. Debian has three versions of its distro: Unstable, testing and stable. It sounds like Gentoo (which I would currently align with the "unstable" version of Debian) is also going to start developing a "stable" version geared towards servers. This is, IMO, a Good Thing.

What I see happening is code being released to the main version of Gentoo first. Then, after all the bugs get worked out, the code will migrate into the "server" version of Gentoo. This will add a little more overhead to the development effort, but not as much as you might think. It's certainly not the same as developing two distros separate from one another.

I will be interested to see how well the Gentoo team can pull this off. Debian has had a lot of problems releasing versions of "stable" in a timely fashion. Potato, which is the current version of stable is roughly 400 years old. (ok, that's an exaggeration, but it still pretty bad) Debian, however, also seems to have a lot of political baggage in the dev team as well. (again, just my opinions) Hopefully, Gentoo can remain streamlined and focused and avoid a lot of the pitfalls that Debian fell into.

--kurt
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Jeevz
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2002 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: The futur of gentoo ??? Reply with quote

klieber wrote:
Hopefully, Gentoo can remain streamlined and focused and avoid a lot of the pitfalls that Debian fell into.


Good point.
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ProGuy
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2002 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, I like the bleeding-edge nature of gentoo, it fits nice into it's source-only principle. And it's nice finally have a easy to administer deskop-system, which has native Java support (Debian with java is a pain, IMHO). However, I wouldn't use it on servers as of now, since this would require too much administration for single server setups. But I could imagine, that administrating a group of Gentoo servers wouldn't be all that hard, you just need a build-machine for every arch/CPU that is in your setup.

There have been some update troubles (libpng upgrade, etc.), which should have been more smooth, but I'll guess it'll get sorted out in the future (everything has a price, and bleeding edges too).

The thing I miss, is a way to perform security related upgrades only. When a security flaw has been found in a package, it should be real easy to rebuild only affected packages, instead of doing a full upgrade.

I don't think that the Gentoo team should start maintaining a "server" version of Gentoo. As stated by others on this forum, Gentoo is only a meta-distribution. And maintaining "stable" builds is a difficult task. Just take a look at the Debian project, right now "stable" is truly stable, but many people think packages are too old.
So, if you need a "stable" Gentoo, do it yourself, either for the public (you could probably charge money for this service in some way), or internally for your company/serverfarm.
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