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swagr
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2002 10:49 pm    Post subject: System is completely f*^ked... Question... Reply with quote

First, let me appologize for my tone in what follows.

Apparently during the portage updates, gentoo updates, rsync relocations, etc, I didn't update my system enough or at the right times or the right packages, or whatever.

I have been a Linux user for (mostly Slackware) for 5 years, and have been using Gentoo since January. I "administer" Gentoo on my laptop, Slackware on my desktop and firewall, and Mandrake on an intranet server at work. So I like to think I have a some clue about running and using Linux.

Back to my problem. Somehow my system got into a state (using only the supplied update tool emerge) where I can not fix it. I did everything mentioned in the forums for the portage upgrade and I still can't emerge --update system, or emerge rsync. Or emerge anything for that matter.

That just smells rotten. Let's recap:
Experienced Linux user installs Gentoo.
Uses included software to maintain system.
Follows instructions.
Ends up with unusable system.

I've given up.
I've downloaded the newest ISO and MIGHT start from scratch, IF...

I can be assured the Gentoo team is doing something to make sure that from now-on, portage will always work and update the system no matter what state it's in (so long as it was portage that put the system into that state), and this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

So someone assure me.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2002 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you atleast state what the error messege is when it fails the emerge....adn i am assuming you changes the make.conf file to point to the relocated server info...i am sure you have done this but just had to ask
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2002 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what's it say about your skills when a guy who has been using redhat for 8 months installed Gentoo without a hitch? :rolleyes:
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swagr
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2002 11:07 pm    Post subject: Sorry I just shut down my Gentoo ststem... have to go.. Reply with quote

Quick reply:
Basically wget and rsync both complain about improper usage.


So what's it say about your skills when a guy who has been using redhat for 8 months installed Gentoo without a hitch?

First "installed" being the oprative word here. I installed it to. I was responsible for installation and it worked. Portage (and it's "upgrade") was responsible maintaining my system and it didn't.

Anyway, Like I inferred: What does it say about a distro when it breaks itself through normal usage?
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emerge update != redhat update

Gentoo is a meta-distribution. It's up to the maintainer (which would be you in this case) to test and stay on top of updates. You can then disseminate the software throughout all of your systems using profiles.

The reward is that you have finely-tuned, high-performance systems and only really have to perform software maintenance at one point.

If you have your profiles set up properly, you can even perform automatic updates from all of your machines without worrying about them breaking, because they'll only do what you've deemed safe.

All of that said, though; Some of the package maintainers have terrible habits when it comes to dependency settings. Until these people learn better and make more sensible decisions in their ebuilds, things can and will break despite your best efforts.

You might be better off with red hat if you don't have the time for this sort of thing and don't want to wait for the distribution to mature.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 3:09 am    Post subject: An update... Reply with quote

Update...

Like I mentioned, rsync and wget were complaining about improper usage. I can't emerge --update system because the gcc build fails with a wget error. So I though maybe I should try (crap shoot) to emerge wget to update it. Strangely enough it worked. This reassured me that wget (in the first place) worked. But once again when I try to emerge --update system, wget complains that it got called the wrong way (basically it just spits out it's usage) on the gcc update (which is required for me to update everything else including portage which is already becoming obsolete).

Gentoo is a meta-distribution. It's up to the maintainer (which would be you in this case) to test and stay on top of updates

WRONG! It's up to me AND the maintainers of portage. Otherwise what's the point of portage at all? At some point you have to trust some part of of your (the maintainer's) responsibilities to portage. Otherwise it's just a waste of disc space.

What I'm saying is:
one day portage worked for me.
The next time I tried it, it didn't. Not as a result of anything I had done.I had made no changes to the system in between. I visited the site to see what was going on. I read the forums. I followed instructions. And although I got through them, my system didn't.
Portage has left me in a chicken/egg situation. I need to update gcc to update python to update portage. But I can't update gcc because my version of portage is 'broken' and can't update gcc. This is why I need to update portage so I can update gcc ....
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: Sorry I just shut down my Gentoo ststem... have to go.. Reply with quote

swagr wrote:
Quick reply: Basically wget and rsync both complain about improper usage.


Quick answer: we can't help you if you don't take the time to post a more detailed error message.

swagr wrote:
What does it say about a distro when it breaks itself through normal usage?


It says that ditro is probably new and is still getting the kinks worked out. However, you've given no indication that it broke through "normal usage". In fact, you said yourself:

swagr wrote:
I didn't update my system enough or at the right times or the right packages, or whatever.


So, sounds like you screwed your system up. Not that we all haven't done the same at one time or another -- part of the learning process.

swagr wrote:
I can be assured the Gentoo team is doing something to make sure that from now-on, portage will always work and update the system no matter what state it's in (so long as it was portage that put the system into that state), and this sort of thing doesn't happen again.


There isn't *one single OS in the entire world* that will always be able to work no matter what you do to it. You're asking for the impossible. You blame portage/Gentoo for something that you may have caused yourself. (you admitted you have no idea what fscked your system)

Take a deep breath, post some error messages and lets see if we cant help fix your problem.

--kurt
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.

(Sorry. I my previous post I kept writing gcc when I meant to say glibc.)

when I "emerge --pretend --update system", the first thing that needs to be done is update glibc

When I "emerge --update system" this happens (and it took a lot of work to even get to this point):

-wget: missing URL
Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]...

Try `wget --help' for more options.
wget: missing URL
Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]...

Try `wget --help' for more options.
 ...done!
>>> emerge sys-libs/glibc-2.2.5-r2 to /

>>> Downloading http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/distfiles/glibc-2.2.5.tar.bz2

>>> Downloading ftp://sources.redhat.com/pub/glibc/releases/glibc-2.2.5.tar.bz2
!!! Couldn't download glibc-2.2.5.tar.bz2. Aborting.
!!! emerge aborting on /usr/portage/sys-libs/glibc/glibc-2.2.5-r2.ebuild
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that's a small price to pay considering that Windows breaks randomly and gives you almost no messages that are informative about the cause of the problem.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
WRONG! It's up to me AND the maintainers of portage. Otherwise what's the point of portage at all? At some point you have to trust some part of of your (the maintainer's) responsibilities to portage. Otherwise it's just a waste of disc space.


I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken about a great many things. 8)

Are you paying the maintainers of portage? I didn't think so... What responsibilities do they have to you? I'd really rather they were more careful about testing ebuilds and double-checking that their dependencies are sane before unleashing them on the unsuspecting userbase, but I'm not so arrogant as to assume they owe me anything.

If things get too far out of hand and they break the system more often than I have time to deal with (or if one break is beyond my Linux knowledge to correct), then I'll simply switch to another distro and bid Gentoo adieu.
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MechaMonkey
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 4:36 am    Post subject: had the same problem, hope this helps Reply with quote

I kinda rushed through the portage/version1 update for Gentoo and wasn't paying much attention (always a bad thing to do as root :? ).

Afterwards emerge began to bail with some wget errors (such as those listed above) when trying to fetch tarballs and the like.

I later realised that I'd forgotten to check out which config files needed updating.

Surprise, surprise /etc/make.globals needed some updates.

For more info try
Code:
emerge -help config


I expect this process was/is documented in detail somewhere, but I hope this helps.

mm
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swagr
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 4:54 am    Post subject: PLEASE READ ME Reply with quote

PLEASE READ ME

Sorry. I was angry.
It wasn't arrogance. I only expected more from Gentoo because I believed it was a gret distro.
Thanks for 6 great months of Gentoo before this one miserable week.
Bye.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 5:30 am    Post subject: How to fix Reply with quote

Look at that guide on updateing to 1.0. I had the same errors you did. But with smart administration it is not that hard to get it working again. Also you can read the /usr/portage/sys-apps/portage/files/README.RESCUE file.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Target wrote:
Quote:
WRONG! It's up to me AND the maintainers of portage. Otherwise what's the point of portage at all? At some point you have to trust some part of of your (the maintainer's) responsibilities to portage. Otherwise it's just a waste of disc space.


I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken about a great many things. 8)

Are you paying the maintainers of portage? I didn't think so... What responsibilities do they have to you? I'd really rather they were more careful about testing ebuilds and double-checking that their dependencies are sane before unleashing them on the unsuspecting userbase, but I'm not so arrogant as to assume they owe me anything.

If things get too far out of hand and they break the system more often than I have time to deal with (or if one break is beyond my Linux knowledge to correct), then I'll simply switch to another distro and bid Gentoo adieu.


Hrm.

Funny, I never paid any of the good folks who gave us FreeBSD, but yanno, for something I didn't pay for, it SURE WORKS. Of course, later in my usage of FreeBSD I DID PURCHASE CD's, even though I didn't need them (I just wanted to give something back for a product that WORKS WELL).

I wonder if Microsoft ever paid the FreeBSD folks anything. Probably not. Such is life when you develop free software.

The whole point that was being made at the beginning of this thread is:

Without someone governing portage, it's a waste of time. Youre better off not using portage and installing stuff from sorce because it works and it wont hose your system randomly.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/usr/portage/sys-apps/portage/files/README.RESCUE

...

ImportError: No module named fchksum

:cry:
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swagr
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the 1.1a ISO.
I'm starting from scratch.
I will be very carefull.
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2002 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
>>> Downloading http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/distfiles/glibc-2.2.5.tar.bz2


OK, so it sounds like you're not able to download the glibc source using emerge. Can you download it manually using wget?

Code:
http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/distfiles/glibc-2.2.5.tar.bz2


If so, do that and toss it in /usr/portage/distfiles. See if that lets you get any farther.

Also, in a later post, you seem to indicate that you don't have the portage rescue readme on your disk. What happens when you type:

Code:
more /usr/portage/sys-apps/portage/files/README.RESCUE


--kurt
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having the same problem when trying to emerge - showing wget usage. I recently did the update thing from rc6 (had some fun with python deps, but got that resolved).

In my /etc/make.global file, I have
FETCHCOMMAND="/usr/bin/wget -t 5 --passive-ftp \${x} -P \${DISTDIR}"

I changed this to:
FETCHCOMMAND="/bin/echo -t 5 --passive-ftp \${x} -P \${DISTDIR}"

Now emerge prints:
>>> Downloading http://www.ibiblio.org/gentoo/distfiles/linux-2.4.18.tar.bz2
-t 5 --passive-ftp -P /usr/portage/distfiles


Obviously, the ${x} isn't getting set from the environment, which is why wget is complaining because it doesn't get the url of the tarball. (This inconsistency is probably due to some change in the portage scripts that I didn't change my config files.) Can someone check their FETCHCOMMAND for 1.0 and let me know what it should be? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2002 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny what you find when doing searching forums for 'FETCHCOMMAND'... I solved my own problem with this:

FETCHCOMMAND="/usr/bin/wget -t 5 --passive-ftp \${URI} -P \${DISTDIR}"

The ${x} changed to ${URI}.
Hope this helps someone else.
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