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bos_mindwarp
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Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 275
Location: stockholm, sweden
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 Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Souperman wrote: | | Sorry dude, blowing your own brains out takes HUGE balls, so the whole coward thing just doesn't hold water. |
Not if you're depressed (as in ill).
Anyway, Nirvana had few songs I liked back then, I liked pearl jam's first album, but to be honest, the only cds from the era I still listen from time to time are Soundgarden and Alice in Chains.
Kurt Cobain in my opinion just did what many others did years before him, when MTV wasn't around. And everybody went "Ooooh! Aaaah".
Then funny enough he became kinda legend to kids today, which is fine by me if they don't take it too seriously. |
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Koala Kid
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Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| bos_mindwarp wrote: | | Souperman wrote: | | Sorry dude, blowing your own brains out takes HUGE balls, so the whole coward thing just doesn't hold water. |
Not if you're depressed (as in ill).
Anyway, Nirvana had few songs I liked back then, I liked pearl jam's first album, but to be honest, the only cds from the era I still listen from time to time are Soundgarden and Alice in Chains.
Kurt Cobain in my opinion just did what many others did years before him, when MTV wasn't around. And everybody went "Ooooh! Aaaah".
Then funny enough he became kinda legend to kids today, which is fine by me if they don't take it too seriously. |
100% right... 
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Tun
n00b
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Stockport, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm not flaming but I'd be interested to know why people think of Kurt Cobain as a hero. The way I see it he screwed up life on drugs then bailed out on his infant son.
That said I don't know anything about his past, so I'm ready to be corrected. Can somebody convince me that he's worthy of the worship and that he's not some selfish junkie that left a wife and kid to the life he couldn't hack himself? |
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vonhelmet
l33t
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Somewhere in a school
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Tun wrote: | I'm not flaming but I'd be interested to know why people think of Kurt Cobain as a hero. The way I see it he screwed up life on drugs then bailed out on his infant son.
That said I don't know anything about his past, so I'm ready to be corrected. Can somebody convince me that he's worthy of the worship and that he's not some selfish junkie that left a wife and kid to the life he couldn't hack himself? |
As I understand it, fame didn't do him any favours. He was messed up and depressed, and being thrust into the public eye in the way he was didn't help. He was hacked off with how he was represented and with the way the record company sold him out, as it were.
It all got too much, so he killed himself.
As for people saying they have no sympathy for someone committing suicide... grow up. It's a tragedy that anyone is ever killed or commits suicide. Don't be so callous. Tell me you'd feel no sympathy if a member of your immediate family killed themself. |
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Kihaji
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Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| vonhelmet wrote: | | Tun wrote: | I'm not flaming but I'd be interested to know why people think of Kurt Cobain as a hero. The way I see it he screwed up life on drugs then bailed out on his infant son.
That said I don't know anything about his past, so I'm ready to be corrected. Can somebody convince me that he's worthy of the worship and that he's not some selfish junkie that left a wife and kid to the life he couldn't hack himself? |
As I understand it, fame didn't do him any favours. He was messed up and depressed, and being thrust into the public eye in the way he was didn't help. He was hacked off with how he was represented and with the way the record company sold him out, as it were.
It all got too much, so he killed himself.
As for people saying they have no sympathy for someone committing suicide... grow up. It's a tragedy that anyone is ever killed or commits suicide. Don't be so callous. Tell me you'd feel no sympathy if a member of your immediate family killed themself. |
They have, and I don't. You do NOT abandon your family, especially a child. NOTHING is so bad that it cannot be resolved. As for fame not doing him any favors, then FUCKING QUIT.
Suicides don't "just happen". You don't one day find a shotgun in your mouth somehow, you put that shotgun there, and you pull the trigger, because you are a selfish coward, plain and simple.
He is no role model, he is a coward and a horrible person. There is a child now that will never know her father because he was too much of a coward to stick around. |
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Crimson Rider
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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Location: Delft, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Just to add a little Conspiracy Theory (TM) to all this,
The autopsy on Kurt revealed that he had been injected with three times as much heroine as the amount that is assumed to be a lethal overdose. It's doubtfull if after such a hit he was coherent enough to roll down his own sleeve again, let alone use a shotgun on himself.
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really
Guru
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | | vonhelmet wrote: | | Tun wrote: | I'm not flaming but I'd be interested to know why people think of Kurt Cobain as a hero. The way I see it he screwed up life on drugs then bailed out on his infant son.
That said I don't know anything about his past, so I'm ready to be corrected. Can somebody convince me that he's worthy of the worship and that he's not some selfish junkie that left a wife and kid to the life he couldn't hack himself? |
As I understand it, fame didn't do him any favours. He was messed up and depressed, and being thrust into the public eye in the way he was didn't help. He was hacked off with how he was represented and with the way the record company sold him out, as it were.
It all got too much, so he killed himself.
As for people saying they have no sympathy for someone committing suicide... grow up. It's a tragedy that anyone is ever killed or commits suicide. Don't be so callous. Tell me you'd feel no sympathy if a member of your immediate family killed themself. |
They have, and I don't. You do NOT abandon your family, especially a child. NOTHING is so bad that it cannot be resolved. As for fame not doing him any favors, then FUCKING QUIT.
Suicides don't "just happen". You don't one day find a shotgun in your mouth somehow, you put that shotgun there, and you pull the trigger, because you are a selfish coward, plain and simple.
He is no role model, he is a coward and a horrible person. There is a child now that will never know her father because he was too much of a coward to stick around. |
whats so bad about being a coward?
his wife wasnt what he thought about her, she fooled him for the money and stuff, he was sold out, something he really hated. fuck it.
atleast he wasnt that brave enough as you are to go around killing people in other countrys, for other peoples wishes.
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Get lost before you get shot. |
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jaska
Bodhisattva
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 725
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | They have, and I don't. You do NOT abandon your family, especially a child. NOTHING is so bad that it cannot be resolved. As for fame not doing him any favors, then FUCKING QUIT.
Suicides don't "just happen". You don't one day find a shotgun in your mouth somehow, you put that shotgun there, and you pull the trigger, because you are a selfish coward, plain and simple.
He is no role model, he is a coward and a horrible person. There is a child now that will never know her father because he was too much of a coward to stick around. |
Obviously suicides happen, what else would you label who decide to end their life? It is a modern day problem and it is becoming worse. Maybe it is nature's way to get rid of the weak and useless as you like to call them.
If a person wants to kill themself then let them do it, it is their life not yours. Kurt did that and that was his problem. |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1317
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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yes and the autopsy did say he was so doped up he couldn't see the gun, nevermind pick it up and shoot himself
if he was doped up it was a halusogen*, he probably thought the gun was a chocolate milk spray gun and wanted a drink, you can't judge someone when they are doped up, some people killed themselves by thinking they could fly and jumping off a cliff, does that make them a coward?
* = i can't spell that word |
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vonhelmet
l33t
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Somewhere in a school
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| viperlin wrote: | yes and the autopsy did say he was so doped up he couldn't see the gun, nevermind pick it up and shoot himself
if he was doped up it was a halusogen*, he probably thought the gun was a chocolate milk spray gun and wanted a drink, you can't judge someone when they are doped up, some people killed themselves by thinking they could fly and jumping off a cliff, does that make them a coward?
* = i can't spell that word |
If he was the doped, how did he manage to write a suicide note? I think he did kill himself - no conspiracies here - and was probably well aware of what he was doing. |
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really
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| jaska wrote: | | Kihaji wrote: | They have, and I don't. You do NOT abandon your family, especially a child. NOTHING is so bad that it cannot be resolved. As for fame not doing him any favors, then FUCKING QUIT.
Suicides don't "just happen". You don't one day find a shotgun in your mouth somehow, you put that shotgun there, and you pull the trigger, because you are a selfish coward, plain and simple.
He is no role model, he is a coward and a horrible person. There is a child now that will never know her father because he was too much of a coward to stick around. |
Obviously suicides happen, what else would you label who decide to end their life? It is a modern day problem and it is becoming worse. Maybe it is nature's way to get rid of the weak and useless as you like to call them.
If a person wants to kill themself then let them do it, it is their life not yours. Kurt did that and that was his problem. |
it cant be "natures way of sorting the 'weak' out" becouse he had a girl right, and i know another man who ha(d)s two children ... :/
lets face it, youve all been thinking of ending it right now(then) and there(wherever)
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NoManNoProblem
Get lost before you get shot. |
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Crimson Rider
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Well, writing experts are in hot debate about the note. Wether or not he did write it himself, especially the last 2 lines.
Personnally I don;t care left or right, but the article I read that highlighted the many opinions that go around the poor mans demise was interesting at least.
Far as I figure, he killed himself by OD, not by gunshot. The autopsy report was quite clear, no man can take that much 'junk' in his veins and even be able to crawl, let allone shoot.
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Code, justify, code - Pitr Dubovich |
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Tun
n00b
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Stockport, England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't say I don't have any sympathy for him. I was just looking for justification of his hero status.
As for suicide, it's very hard to judge, if it's possible to judge at all. It's the people who label the suicide as heroic (or for that matter weak) without putting much thought into it that I'd take issue with.
Personally I believe most (note the most) suicides to be avoidable. The mind is incredibly malleable and could be brought round to accept alternative points of view, avoiding loss of life. I think if Kurt Cobain had shown alternatives, educated if you like, he'd still be here today. His death was tragic, not heroic.
| vonhelmet wrote: |
As I understand it, fame didn't do him any favours. He was messed up and depressed, and being thrust into the public eye in the way he was didn't help. He was hacked off with how he was represented and with the way the record company sold him out, as it were.
It all got too much, so he killed himself.
As for people saying they have no sympathy for someone committing suicide... grow up. It's a tragedy that anyone is ever killed or commits suicide. Don't be so callous. Tell me you'd feel no sympathy if a member of your immediate family killed themself. |
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really
Guru
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 430
Location: nowhere
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Crimson Rider wrote: | Well, writing experts are in hot debate about the note. Wether or not he did write it himself, especially the last 2 lines.
Personnally I don;t care left or right, but the article I read that highlighted the many opinions that go around the poor mans demise was interesting at least.
Far as I figure, he killed himself by OD, not by gunshot. The autopsy report was quite clear, no man can take that much 'junk' in his veins and even be able to crawl, let allone shoot. |
where can you find the note? if its available to us somehow
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NoManNoProblem
Get lost before you get shot. |
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Crimson Rider wrote: | Just to add a little Conspiracy Theory (TM) to all this,
The autopsy on Kurt revealed that he had been injected with three times as much heroine as the amount that is assumed to be a lethal overdose. It's doubtfull if after such a hit he was coherent enough to roll down his own sleeve again, let alone use a shotgun on himself. |
Heroin addicts build up a tolerance such that they can use a much higher dosage than normally possible. I know from experience. |
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hardcore
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 626
Location: MSU, MI
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | | vonhelmet wrote: | | Tun wrote: | I'm not flaming but I'd be interested to know why people think of Kurt Cobain as a hero. The way I see it he screwed up life on drugs then bailed out on his infant son.
That said I don't know anything about his past, so I'm ready to be corrected. Can somebody convince me that he's worthy of the worship and that he's not some selfish junkie that left a wife and kid to the life he couldn't hack himself? |
As I understand it, fame didn't do him any favours. He was messed up and depressed, and being thrust into the public eye in the way he was didn't help. He was hacked off with how he was represented and with the way the record company sold him out, as it were.
It all got too much, so he killed himself.
As for people saying they have no sympathy for someone committing suicide... grow up. It's a tragedy that anyone is ever killed or commits suicide. Don't be so callous. Tell me you'd feel no sympathy if a member of your immediate family killed themself. |
They have, and I don't. You do NOT abandon your family, especially a child. NOTHING is so bad that it cannot be resolved. As for fame not doing him any favors, then FUCKING QUIT.
Suicides don't "just happen". You don't one day find a shotgun in your mouth somehow, you put that shotgun there, and you pull the trigger, because you are a selfish coward, plain and simple.
He is no role model, he is a coward and a horrible person. There is a child now that will never know her father because he was too much of a coward to stick around. |
You try being on heroin....
Kurt Cobain was to many kids a glimpse of hope. A glimpse of how a poor ass punk kid could get himself out of the gutter and become somebody. Kurt just couldn't handle coming from nothing to being thrust into the limelight, hence his heroin addiction and consequent suicide.
He was and still is a great lyricist/singer/songwriter, to all those that said Hole and Foo Fighters are "greater than Nirvana ever was", etc. Well Kurt for the most part produced, wrote and even put down the musical parts of the tracks for most of Hole's debut albulm. Foo Fighters would not have been the same without Kurt being an influence, ask Dave, or read some of his interviews...
This thread isn't about bashing, it's more of paying your respects, if you didn't like him or whatever, don't say shit, start another thread.
RIP Kurt
-Sunbeams are never made like me |
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Kihaji
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| hardcore wrote: |
You try being on heroin.... |
No, I don't need drugs to make me feel better about myself, only pussies do.
| Quote: |
Kurt Cobain was to many kids a glimpse of hope. A glimpse of how a poor ass punk kid could get himself out of the gutter and become somebody. Kurt just couldn't handle coming from nothing to being thrust into the limelight, hence his heroin addiction and consequent suicide. |
Bullshit, the limelight didn't put that needle in his arm, the limelight didn't put that shotgun in his mouth, he did. There are a multitude of people who go from no-one to someone without putting drugs in their body or a bullet through their head. He was a coward and a pussy period. He put that bullet through his skull because he was a selfish little bitch.
| Quote: |
He was and still is a great lyricist/singer/songwriter, to all those that said Hole and Foo Fighters are "greater than Nirvana ever was", etc. Well Kurt for the most part produced, wrote and even put down the musical parts of the tracks for most of Hole's debut albulm. Foo Fighters would not have been the same without Kurt being an influence, ask Dave, or read some of his interviews... |
He was mediocre at best. He didn't sing, he mumbled into the mic, he knew 3 chords, and his songs were simple. The ONLY reason Nirvana was remotely popular was because it was the Pearl Jam era and kids that wanted to be cool listened to Nirvana.
| Quote: |
This thread isn't about bashing, it's more of paying your respects, if you didn't like him or whatever, don't say shit, start another thread.
RIP Kurt
-Sunbeams are never made like me |
It's pathetic to pay respects to a child, I can't even call him a man, that abandons his family because fame is "too hard". Boo fucking hoo |
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viperlin
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 1317
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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erm, why is it called limelight?
Kihaji likes making judgements about things he obviously does not understand and never will, he will never admit he is wrong and will argue anything to death, theres no point so i would like to start the LIK (Lets Ignore Kihaji) group.
anyone wishing to join please add *LIK* to your .sig to show support
Last edited by viperlin on Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hardcore
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 626
Location: MSU, MI
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | | hardcore wrote: |
You try being on heroin.... |
No, I don't need drugs to make me feel better about myself, only pussies do.
| Quote: |
Kurt Cobain was to many kids a glimpse of hope. A glimpse of how a poor ass punk kid could get himself out of the gutter and become somebody. Kurt just couldn't handle coming from nothing to being thrust into the limelight, hence his heroin addiction and consequent suicide. |
Bullshit, the limelight didn't put that needle in his arm, the limelight didn't put that shotgun in his mouth, he did. There are a multitude of people who go from no-one to someone without putting drugs in their body or a bullet through their head. He was a coward and a pussy period. He put that bullet through his skull because he was a selfish little bitch.
| Quote: |
He was and still is a great lyricist/singer/songwriter, to all those that said Hole and Foo Fighters are "greater than Nirvana ever was", etc. Well Kurt for the most part produced, wrote and even put down the musical parts of the tracks for most of Hole's debut albulm. Foo Fighters would not have been the same without Kurt being an influence, ask Dave, or read some of his interviews... |
He was mediocre at best. He didn't sing, he mumbled into the mic, he knew 3 chords, and his songs were simple. The ONLY reason Nirvana was remotely popular was because it was the Pearl Jam era and kids that wanted to be cool listened to Nirvana.
| Quote: |
This thread isn't about bashing, it's more of paying your respects, if you didn't like him or whatever, don't say shit, start another thread.
RIP Kurt
-Sunbeams are never made like me |
It's pathetic to pay respects to a child, I can't even call him a man, that abandons his family because fame is "too hard". Boo fucking hoo |
Well I was reading that and honestly it went like this: "No, I don't need drugs" Jarhead "to make me feel better about myself," Jarhead "only pussies do." Fucking Jarhead.
My response comes in the form of some of Kurts lyrics, titled "Come on Death", how apprapoe:
Surly
I am so surly, and I am so surly
And come on life in, and come on deaaaath
ohaaaaaahhhh, ohaaaaaaaahahah, ohaaaaaaoooohoh
Surly, and I am so surly, and I am so surly
And come on life in, and come on ...
Noooooooooooo, noooooooooo, nooooooooooo, nooooooooooo
Surly, and I am so surly, and I am so surly
And I am so surly, oooooaaaaaahhhh
Deaaaaaaaath, deaaaaaath, deaaaaaaaaath, deaaaaaaaaaaath
Come on death, come on death, come on death, come on death
Surly, surly, surly, surly |
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hardcore
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 626
Location: MSU, MI
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | | hardcore wrote: |
You try being on heroin.... |
No, I don't need drugs to make me feel better about myself, only pussies do. |
Oh I almost missed this one... I guarantee that you drink or at least have drank before, so is alcohol not a drug? Cuz the last time I checked, it most certainly was. Ever had a prescription?
Last edited by hardcore on Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jaska
Bodhisattva
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 725
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Kihaji wrote: | | hardcore wrote: |
You try being on heroin.... |
No, I don't need drugs to make me feel better about myself, only pussies do.
| Quote: |
Kurt Cobain was to many kids a glimpse of hope. A glimpse of how a poor ass punk kid could get himself out of the gutter and become somebody. Kurt just couldn't handle coming from nothing to being thrust into the limelight, hence his heroin addiction and consequent suicide. |
Bullshit, the limelight didn't put that needle in his arm, the limelight didn't put that shotgun in his mouth, he did. There are a multitude of people who go from no-one to someone without putting drugs in their body or a bullet through their head. He was a coward and a pussy period. He put that bullet through his skull because he was a selfish little bitch.
| Quote: |
He was and still is a great lyricist/singer/songwriter, to all those that said Hole and Foo Fighters are "greater than Nirvana ever was", etc. Well Kurt for the most part produced, wrote and even put down the musical parts of the tracks for most of Hole's debut albulm. Foo Fighters would not have been the same without Kurt being an influence, ask Dave, or read some of his interviews... |
He was mediocre at best. He didn't sing, he mumbled into the mic, he knew 3 chords, and his songs were simple. The ONLY reason Nirvana was remotely popular was because it was the Pearl Jam era and kids that wanted to be cool listened to Nirvana.
| Quote: |
This thread isn't about bashing, it's more of paying your respects, if you didn't like him or whatever, don't say shit, start another thread.
RIP Kurt
-Sunbeams are never made like me |
It's pathetic to pay respects to a child, I can't even call him a man, that abandons his family because fame is "too hard". Boo fucking hoo |
We don't seem to believe in change do we now? You are starting to sound like Bush, NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND, ONLY IF THEY CAN NOT AFFORD IT. Leave the waste of society behind and rub that in to show the scum their place in society. I find you a despicable person Kihaji.
I won't bother to tell you to have some respect for the dead since it just is wasting space and bandwith as usual... |
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shm
Advocate
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 2380
Location: Atlanta, Universe
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hardcore wrote: | | Oh I almost missed this one... I guarantee that you drink or at least have drank before, so is alcohol not a drug? Cuz the last time I checked, it most certainly was. Ever had a prescription? |
There is quite a difference between drinking occaisionally to being addicted out of your mind to heroin (or being an alcoholic). |
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hardcore
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 626
Location: MSU, MI
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| shm wrote: | | hardcore wrote: | | Oh I almost missed this one... I guarantee that you drink or at least have drank before, so is alcohol not a drug? Cuz the last time I checked, it most certainly was. Ever had a prescription? |
There is quite a difference between drinking occaisionally to being addicted out of your mind to heroin (or being an alcoholic). |
Well yeah, but he said he "didn't need drugs to make himself feel better." But isn't that what alcohol and pain-killers and other prescription drugs do (in both an abusive/non-abusive kind of way)?
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Kihaji
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| hardcore wrote: | | Kihaji wrote: | | hardcore wrote: |
You try being on heroin.... |
No, I don't need drugs to make me feel better about myself, only pussies do. |
Oh I almost missed this one... I guarantee that you drink or at least have drank before, so is alcohol not a drug? Cuz the last time I checked, it most certainly was. Ever had a prescription? |
You would fail that guarantee. |
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Kihaji
Apprentice
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jaska wrote: |
We don't seem to believe in change do we now? You are starting to sound like Bush, NO ONE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND, ONLY IF THEY CAN NOT AFFORD IT. Leave the waste of society behind and rub that in to show the scum their place in society. I find you a despicable person Kihaji.
I won't bother to tell you to have some respect for the dead since it just is wasting space and bandwith as usual... |
What the hell are you talking about? What does anything you say have to do with suicide.
Suicide is a selfish cowards way out of a situation, plain and simple. I have no sympathy for people who commit suicide, especially over something as simple and trivial as "fame". I also find it pathetic the people that idolize these cowards. "Oh, doing drugs is ok because he has a lot of pressure, he is famous". "Oh, he can speed and get a DUI because he is famous". Bullshit, these "stars" that act this way are pathetic human beings and don't desrve my respect. |
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Off the Wall
